From karl at freefriends.org  Mon Feb  2 02:28:26 2004
From: karl at freefriends.org (Karl Berry)
Date: Mon Feb  2 02:28:35 2004
Subject: [tex-live] map file / new path settings
In-Reply-To: <20040124221035.GC14346@dbs.uni-hannover.de>
Message-ID: <200402020128.i121SQA15014@f7.net>

    the TeX Live documentation for the next release should have precise
    instructions for people who want to adopt their local tree to the
    new release.

I added your text (thanks for writing) to
http://tug.org/texlive/bugs.html.  Could you please check it over?
Then I'll add it to the documentation for the next release.

Barbara also asked me to write up a short note for TUGboat about it, so
I'll do that.

Thanks.
From staw at gust.org.pl  Tue Feb  3 14:59:55 2004
From: staw at gust.org.pl (Staszek Wawrykiewicz)
Date: Tue Feb  3 14:58:16 2004
Subject: [tex-live] map, enc and bugs.html
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0402031429190.2288-100000@re86.internetdsl.tpnet.pl>

I found that the last additions to bugs.html are rather appropriate
for the new release documentation. TL2003 as it was mastered and 
distributed is somehow in a half-way of TDS recommendations.

> <li><b>Map/Enc file locations</b> have changed.  TeX Live now follows a
> change of the <a href="/tds/">TeX Directory Standard</a> made in
> February 2003&#151;which means that you need to rearrange your local 
> texmf
> trees if they still use the old organization, or your local map and
> encoding files will not be found.  Specifically:
>
> <ul>
> <li>if you have map files inside the dvips or pdftex local directory
>     tree, move them to fonts/map.

On TL2003 they are _still_ inside dvips directory. Only global map
files are built by updmap in fonts/map/

> <li>If you have enc files inside the local dvips directory tree, move
>     them to fonts/enc.
> <li>If you have input files for etex, mltex, omega and pdftex at the top
>     level of your local directory tree, move them to the tex
>     subtree. Try to preserve the structore that was below the old tree,
>     e.g., move pdftex/foo/baa/x.tex to tex/foo/baa/x.tex.
> </ul>

If the user has to do all the above, texmf.cnf should be also changed.

> <p>The map and enc files which come with TeX Live are already installed
> in the right place.  It is only your local directory trees which may
> need rearranging.

Sorry, not yet true... Eh, yes, true, but only on p4 depot, thus
not appropriate for TL2003.

Thanks,

-- 
Staszek Wawrykiewicz
StaW@gust.org.pl


From karl at freefriends.org  Wed Feb  4 19:06:23 2004
From: karl at freefriends.org (Karl Berry)
Date: Wed Feb  4 19:06:34 2004
Subject: [tex-live] map, enc and bugs.html
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0402031429190.2288-100000@re86.internetdsl.tpnet.pl>
Message-ID: <200402041806.i14I6NZ04001@f7.net>

    Sorry, not yet true... 

Hmm, now I don't understand where the problem lies (with TL 2003).  I
thought the original bug that Hans reported was that map/enc files in
local trees would not be found, with TL 2003.

But looking at my TL 2003 texmf/web2c/texmf.cnf, there is:
TEXPSHEADERS = .;$TEXMF/{{dvips,fonts/{map,enc}/{dvips,}},pdftex,tex,fonts/type1}//

So why doesn't that find the files in local trees?  Assuming $TEXMF
includes the local trees, as it should.

Is the problem entirely with the development TL?

Thanks,
k
From te at dbs.uni-hannover.de  Wed Feb  4 19:52:33 2004
From: te at dbs.uni-hannover.de (Thomas Esser)
Date: Wed Feb  4 19:52:45 2004
Subject: [tex-live] map, enc and bugs.html
In-Reply-To: <200402041806.i14I6NZ04001@f7.net>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0402031429190.2288-100000@re86.internetdsl.tpnet.pl>
	<200402041806.i14I6NZ04001@f7.net>
Message-ID: <20040204185233.GB14225@dbs.uni-hannover.de>

> But looking at my TL 2003 texmf/web2c/texmf.cnf, there is:
> TEXPSHEADERS = .;$TEXMF/{{dvips,fonts/{map,enc}/{dvips,}},pdftex,tex,fonts/type1}//
> 
> So why doesn't that find the files in local trees?  Assuming $TEXMF
> includes the local trees, as it should.

I can imagine that the file in the local tree exists in a "lower
precedence" location than in some other tree. Or, in other words:
it works "as designed"...

E.g. if we have
  TEXMF={/local,/main}
and the files
  /local/pdftex/foo.map
  /main/dvips/foo.map
then the *second* and not the first file is found.

I think this is another good example why search paths should be *simple*.

Thomas
From karl at freefriends.org  Wed Feb  4 20:00:06 2004
From: karl at freefriends.org (Karl Berry)
Date: Wed Feb  4 20:00:16 2004
Subject: [tex-live] map, enc and bugs.html
In-Reply-To: <20040204185233.GB14225@dbs.uni-hannover.de>
Message-ID: <200402041900.i14J06r19501@f7.net>

      TEXMF={/local,/main}

Yes indeed, the default TEXMF is:
{$HOMETEXMF,!!$VARTEXMF,$TEXMFLOCAL,!!$TEXMFMAIN}

      /local/pdftex/foo.map
      /main/dvips/foo.map
    then the *second* and not the first file is found.

Really?  Because of the relative locations of pdftex and dvips in the
lower components of the path?  That seems like a bug in the path
searching.

    I think this is another good example why search paths should be *simple*.

I don't think anyone is arguing the principle.


Meanwhile, I'm afraid I still don't understand the problem or the
remedy, since Staszek said the text I posted, based on Thomas's email,
was wrong.
From te at dbs.uni-hannover.de  Wed Feb  4 20:08:12 2004
From: te at dbs.uni-hannover.de (Thomas Esser)
Date: Wed Feb  4 20:08:23 2004
Subject: [tex-live] map, enc and bugs.html
In-Reply-To: <200402041900.i14J06r19501@f7.net>
References: <20040204185233.GB14225@dbs.uni-hannover.de>
	<200402041900.i14J06r19501@f7.net>
Message-ID: <20040204190812.GF14225@dbs.uni-hannover.de>

> Really?  Because of the relative locations of pdftex and dvips in the
> lower components of the path?  That seems like a bug in the path
> searching.

As I said: it works as designed. It is important to have precedence from
right to left if we have multiple braces to expand. Consider this:
  TEXMF={/local,/main}
  TEXINPUTS=$TEXMF/tex/{generic,}//
And
  /local/tex/funny/hyphen.cfg
  /main/tex/generic/hyphen.cfg

We *do* want the second, not the first. That's the documented behaviour
and that's why I said: "works as designed".

> Meanwhile, I'm afraid I still don't understand the problem or the
> remedy, since Staszek said the text I posted, based on Thomas's email,
> was wrong.

I think that my text is ok for the next version of TL, but not for TL2003.

Thomas
From karl at freefriends.org  Wed Feb  4 20:17:11 2004
From: karl at freefriends.org (Karl Berry)
Date: Wed Feb  4 20:17:21 2004
Subject: [tex-live] map, enc and bugs.html
In-Reply-To: <20040204190812.GF14225@dbs.uni-hannover.de>
Message-ID: <200402041917.i14JHBd24382@f7.net>

    it works as designed. 

Yes, I read that.  I should have said: "seems like a bug in the design".

      /local/tex/funny/hyphen.cfg
      /main/tex/generic/hyphen.cfg

    We *do* want the second, not the first. 

I'm not sure I agree, but I suppose it's moot.

    I think that my text is ok for the next version of TL, but not for TL2003.

1) So, is there or is there not a bug in TL 2003 regarding this stuff?
I thought Hans' original msg was about TL03, not 04.

2) It seems painful to change the paths out from under the locals
   without any warning.  We can't expect random sysadmins to read or
   care about the TDS.
   
   Can we give them a year, that is, we make the 04 release with both
   the old and new paths, and in the documentation say "hey, next year
   there's only going to be new paths, so change your local files now"?
   
   That way at least there is a chance for a smooth changeover.
From ousia at gmx.net  Wed Feb  4 20:33:03 2004
From: ousia at gmx.net (Pablo =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Rodr=EDguez?=)
Date: Wed Feb  4 20:38:04 2004
Subject: [tex-live] a cbgreek ligature and lmodern
Message-ID: <1075923183.3460.152.camel@cm228161.red.mundo-r.com>

Hi there,

I have been using MikTeX for a couple of years, but when I moved to
Linux (MDK 9.2) I installed TeXLive 2003.

TeXLive is great and congratulations for the excellent work.

With the cbgreek type1 version that comes with cm-super there is a small
problem with alpha plus iota subscript ligatures, since the iota is only
subscript when no the alpha has no diacritics (either accent, spiritus
or both).

In order to check this, here you have a small document:

\documentclass{article}
\usepackage[greek]{babel}
\languageattribute{greek}{polutoniko}
\begin{document}
a| >a| >'a| >`a| >~a| <a| <'a| <`a| <~a|
\end{document}

It also happens in TeXLive 2003 for Windows, but not in MikTeX (I was
told). [Actually, the final version my dissertation contains a displaced
iota subscript, but if this could be fixed... ] 

I have read that the use of lmodern is recommended. I have tried to use
it as an alternative for cm-super, but in this case Greek italics seem
not to switch properly. There must be something there, but I get the
following messages in the log file:

LaTeX Font Warning: Font shape `LGR/lmr/m/n' undefined
(Font)              using `LGR/cmr/m/n' instead on input line 6.


LaTeX Font Warning: Font shape `LGR/lmr/m/it' undefined
(Font)              using `LGR/lmr/m/n' instead on input line 8.

[1{/usr/TeX/texmf-var/fonts/map/pdftex/updmap/pdftex.map}] (./a.aux)

LaTeX Font Warning: Some font shapes were not available, defaults
substituted.

Is there any way to avoid this so that I can use all cbgreek fonts with
lmodern?

Thanks for your help,


Pablo

From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk  Wed Feb  4 21:51:54 2004
From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz)
Date: Wed Feb  4 21:53:54 2004
Subject: [tex-live] a cbgreek ligature and lmodern
In-Reply-To: <1075923183.3460.152.camel@cm228161.red.mundo-r.com>
References: <1075923183.3460.152.camel@cm228161.red.mundo-r.com>
Message-ID: <40215B6A.9040200@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>

Pablo Rodr?guez wrote:

>It also happens in TeXLive 2003 for Windows, but not in MikTeX (I was
>told). [Actually, the final version my dissertation contains a displaced
>iota subscript, but if this could be fixed... ] 
>
>  
>
if MikTeX has different files, I am puzzled. can anyone confirm this?

>I have read that the use of lmodern is recommended. I have tried to use
>it as an alternative for cm-super, but in this case Greek italics seem
>not to switch properly. 
>

I am afraid I must defer to others on this. I am not sure of the issues

Sebastian Rahtz
From staw at gust.org.pl  Thu Feb  5 03:17:07 2004
From: staw at gust.org.pl (Staszek Wawrykiewicz)
Date: Thu Feb  5 03:14:26 2004
Subject: [tex-live] map, enc and bugs.html
In-Reply-To: <200402041900.i14J06r19501@f7.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0402050309330.1838-100000@re86.internetdsl.tpnet.pl>

On Wed, 4 Feb 2004, Karl Berry wrote:

TE>> I think this is another good example why search paths should be 
TE>> *simple*.

Agreed.

> Meanwhile, I'm afraid I still don't understand the problem or the
> remedy, since Staszek said the text I posted, based on Thomas's email,
> was wrong.

I didn't tell that text was wrong. It is good sketch for TL2004
description. 

-- 
Staszek Wawrykiewicz
StaW@gust.org.pl


From harald.von.aschen at gmx.de  Thu Feb  5 03:33:39 2004
From: harald.von.aschen at gmx.de (Harald von Aschen)
Date: Thu Feb  5 03:34:16 2004
Subject: [tex-live] Problems installing doublestroke ps-1 fonts and
  updmap
Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20040205032133.00a05ec0@131.188.3.51>

[Windows 98, TeXLive newest version]

Hi!

The doublestroke-fonts are installed with teTex only in bitmap form? All 
seems to be there only dstroke.map is missing?

O.k., TeTexDoc.pdf says about installing new Postscript type 1 fonts: put 
.map file into dvips/misc.

I'm then doing texhash and then

updmap --enable Map=dstroke.map

but

C:\WINDOWS\Desktop\susaneu>updmap --enable Map=dstroke.map
Kpathsea released!
using config file f:/Programme/TeXLive/texmf-var/web2c/updmap.cfg
f:/Programme/TeXLive/texmf-var/web2c/updmap.cfg unchanged. Map files not 
recreat
ed.

I'm can disable and (afterwards) enable other maps but I can't enable 
dstroke.map.

Thank you so much for your help! Regards, Harald

From te at dbs.uni-hannover.de  Thu Feb  5 06:43:48 2004
From: te at dbs.uni-hannover.de (Thomas Esser)
Date: Thu Feb  5 06:43:58 2004
Subject: [tex-live] Problems installing doublestroke ps-1 fonts and updmap
In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20040205032133.00a05ec0@131.188.3.51>
References: <5.2.0.9.2.20040205032133.00a05ec0@131.188.3.51>
Message-ID: <20040205054348.GK14225@dbs.uni-hannover.de>

> The doublestroke-fonts are installed with teTex only in bitmap form? All 
> seems to be there only dstroke.map is missing?

I guess that you are talking about TeX Live, since you have Cc'ed the
texlive list...

> updmap --enable Map=dstroke.map

Looking at tpm/package/doublestroke.tpm, I see that TL contains the pdf files for the
doublestroke fonts, but not dstroke.map.

Anyway, that file is so short that I even dare to add it to this mail:

dsrom12 dsrom12 <dsrom12.pfb
dsrom10 dsrom10 <dsrom10.pfb
dsrom8 dsrom8 <dsrom8.pfb
dsss12 dsss12 <dsss12.pfb
dsss10 dsss10 <dsss10.pfb
dsss8 dsss8 <dsss8.pfb

Save these lines to texmf/dvips/misc/dstroke.map, then run
  texhash
  updmap --enable MixedMap dstroke.map
and you'are done.

Thomas
From pragma at wxs.nl  Thu Feb  5 11:27:59 2004
From: pragma at wxs.nl (Hans Hagen)
Date: Thu Feb  5 11:34:57 2004
Subject: [tex-live] map, enc and bugs.html
In-Reply-To: <200402041917.i14JHBd24382@f7.net>
References: <20040204190812.GF14225@dbs.uni-hannover.de>
	<200402041917.i14JHBd24382@f7.net>
Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20040205112400.01cb2998@server-1>

At 20:17 04/02/2004, Karl Berry wrote:

>    Can we give them a year, that is, we make the 04 release with both
>    the old and new paths, and in the documentation say "hey, next year
>    there's only going to be new paths, so change your local files now"?
>
>    That way at least there is a chance for a smooth changeover.

that was indeed what i had in mind, a transition year: on tl2004 everything 
in the new structure but the cnf still a bit more tolerant; i can even 
imagine that we then announce (also in the journals) that tl2005 will be 
the big clean up [maybe even more things in the cnf file can be simplified 
and/or more new things in tds are on their way]

(i'm in the middle of a migration to the new tds and esp with multiple 
machines and multiple trees on machines it's a tricky process (i also need 
to regenerate font metrics because small differences in encoding vectors on 
different paths etc now become more significant since everything is shared 
/ merged))

Hans


From pragma at wxs.nl  Thu Feb  5 16:17:10 2004
From: pragma at wxs.nl (Hans Hagen)
Date: Thu Feb  5 16:17:36 2004
Subject: [tex-live] map, enc and bugs.html
In-Reply-To: <200402041806.i14I6NZ04001@f7.net>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0402031429190.2288-100000@re86.internetdsl.tpnet.pl>
	<200402041806.i14I6NZ04001@f7.net>
Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20040205161418.01c68848@server-1>

At 19:06 04/02/2004, Karl Berry wrote:
>     Sorry, not yet true...
>
>Hmm, now I don't understand where the problem lies (with TL 2003).  I
>thought the original bug that Hans reported was that map/enc files in
>local trees would not be found, with TL 2003.
>
>But looking at my TL 2003 texmf/web2c/texmf.cnf, there is:
>TEXPSHEADERS = 
>.;$TEXMF/{{dvips,fonts/{map,enc}/{dvips,}},pdftex,tex,fonts/type1}//

indeed, but we're (at the tl list) are talking about the next version -)

>So why doesn't that find the files in local trees?  Assuming $TEXMF
>includes the local trees, as it should.

so, with the map and enc files going to fonts/map anf fonts/enc, and the 
env var adapted accordingly, local map files get out of scope (unless 
copied as suggested by thomas)

>Is the problem entirely with the development TL?

the problem is / may arise

(1) with users who use an update of tetex/fptex in combination with tex live
(2) when the next tex live comes out

Hans

From ms at artcom-gmbh.de  Thu Feb  5 16:23:44 2004
From: ms at artcom-gmbh.de (Martin =?iso-8859-1?Q?Schr=F6der?=)
Date: Thu Feb  5 16:24:46 2004
Subject: [tex-live] map, enc and bugs.html
In-Reply-To: <6.0.1.1.2.20040205161418.01c68848@server-1>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0402031429190.2288-100000@re86.internetdsl.tpnet.pl>
	<200402041806.i14I6NZ04001@f7.net>
	<6.0.1.1.2.20040205161418.01c68848@server-1>
Message-ID: <20040205152344.GC2402@artcom8.artcom-gmbh.de>

On 2004-02-05 16:17:10 +0100, Hans Hagen wrote:
> the problem is / may arise
> 
> (1) with users who use an update of tetex/fptex in combination with tex live
> (2) when the next tex live comes out
  (3) users which use a new version of pdftex with an "old" tex
      installation

Best regards
        Martin
-- 
               Martin Schr?der, ms@artcom-gmbh.de
     ArtCom GmbH, Lise-Meitner-Str 5, 28359 Bremen, Germany
          Voice +49 421 20419-44 / Fax +49 421 20419-10
                    http://www.artcom-gmbh.de
From harald.von.aschen at gmx.de  Thu Feb  5 19:10:51 2004
From: harald.von.aschen at gmx.de (Harald von Aschen)
Date: Thu Feb  5 19:11:30 2004
Subject: [tex-live] Problems installing doublestroke ps-1 fonts and updmap
In-Reply-To: <20040205054348.GK14225@dbs.uni-hannover.de>
References: <5.2.0.9.2.20040205032133.00a05ec0@131.188.3.51>
	<5.2.0.9.2.20040205032133.00a05ec0@131.188.3.51>
Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20040205190306.00a0fec0@213.165.64.20>

At 06:43 05.02.04 +0100, Thomas Esser wrote:

Hi Thomas!

> > The doublestroke-fonts are installed with teTex only in bitmap form? All
> > seems to be there only dstroke.map is missing?
>
>I guess that you are talking about TeX Live, since you have Cc'ed the
>texlive list...

Yes, thank you. (System: Windows 98, TeXLive updated to the actual version.)

> > updmap --enable Map=dstroke.map
>
>Looking at tpm/package/doublestroke.tpm, I see that TL contains the pdf 
>files for the
>doublestroke fonts, but not dstroke.map.
>
>Anyway, that file is so short that I even dare to add it to this mail:

[dstroke.map]

>Save these lines to texmf/dvips/misc/dstroke.map, then run
>   texhash
>   updmap --enable MixedMap dstroke.map
>and you'are done.

O.k. and that is my problem:

(a) I have downloaded from Ctan the dstroke.map. Nevertheless thank you 
very much for including these lines!!!

(b) BUT: This does not work! I can enable and disable other maps but not 
this dstroke.map. First I have saved it to 
texmf/dvips/doublestroke/dstroke.map, then to 
texmf/dvips/misc/doublestroke/dstroke.map and then to 
texmf/dvips/misc/dstroke.map and up to check everything to 
texmf/fontname/dstroke.map. But updmap --enable MixedMap (or my wrong used 
Map here, but I have tried MixedMap also) dstroke.map does not work here. 
Nothing happens (after a rebuild of the ls-R-filename database):

C:\WINDOWS\Desktop\susaneu>updmap --enable MixedMap dstroke.map
Kpathsea released!
using config file f:/Programme/TeXLive/texmf-var/web2c/updmap.cfg
f:/Programme/TeXLive/texmf-var/web2c/updmap.cfg unchanged. Map files not 
recreat
ed.

Because other font maps were easily disabled by updmap and then I can 
enable then I do not know what is going wrong here.

Other point: My first suggestion was I put it wrong in the file structure 
due to the "new" TDS conventions. I'm reading here the arising problems, 
e.g. thread "[tex-live] map, enc and bugs.html" and I have had masssive 
problems to put my personal files in a right way to being accessed by 
TeXLive. This is a big problem for me because I'm normally using "Textures" 
from BlueSky-Research on my old Mac but I'm trying to port many of my 
documents to Windows and TexLive and there it takes me very long to get 
them run because the TDS conventions and the search paths are making the 
most trouble for me.

I'm a little bit suprised what I'm doing wrong here and my only idea is to 
add them totally by hand to the .cfg and .ps configuration files?

Regards, Harald 

From te at dbs.uni-hannover.de  Thu Feb  5 19:39:45 2004
From: te at dbs.uni-hannover.de (Thomas Esser)
Date: Thu Feb  5 19:39:54 2004
Subject: [tex-live] Problems installing doublestroke ps-1 fonts and updmap
In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20040205190306.00a0fec0@213.165.64.20>
References: <5.2.0.9.2.20040205032133.00a05ec0@131.188.3.51>
	<5.2.0.9.2.20040205032133.00a05ec0@131.188.3.51>
	<5.2.0.9.2.20040205190306.00a0fec0@213.165.64.20>
Message-ID: <20040205183945.GA11701@dbs.uni-hannover.de>

> C:\WINDOWS\Desktop\susaneu>updmap --enable MixedMap dstroke.map
> Kpathsea released!
> using config file f:/Programme/TeXLive/texmf-var/web2c/updmap.cfg
> f:/Programme/TeXLive/texmf-var/web2c/updmap.cfg unchanged. Map files not 
> recreat
> ed.

Please check the content of
f:/Programme/TeXLive/texmf-var/web2c/updmap.cfg.  If it already contains
a line "MixedMap dstroke.map", it makes no sense to --enable it again.
In that case, just run updmap without any further commandline argument.
It will rebuild all map files, then.

> Other point: My first suggestion was I put it wrong in the file structure 
> due to the "new" TDS conventions. I'm reading here the arising problems, 
> e.g. thread "[tex-live] map, enc and bugs.html" and I have had masssive 

That's future stuff for TeX Live 2004.

> problems to put my personal files in a right way to being accessed by 
> TeXLive. This is a big problem for me because I'm normally using "Textures" 

You actually might run into trouble by using a wrong dvips.map /
pdftex.map due to the overblown search path in TeX Live 2003.
Please, try something like
  dvips -d 64 sample2e -o
to see if the newly generated dvips.map is used or some other file
in a different texmf tree. In that case, remove the old file that
shadows the new one.

> from BlueSky-Research on my old Mac but I'm trying to port many of my 
> documents to Windows and TexLive and there it takes me very long to get 
> them run because the TDS conventions and the search paths are making the 
> most trouble for me.

map files did not have their proper TDS location before Feb. 2003. Now,
we have to get it right in applications and distributions which takes
some time.

TeX Live 2003 already tries to go the "be compatible" route by having
the old and the new locations in the search path. I think that this is
doing more harm than good and that we should not make that mistake again.

But, again and again I hear this "give us one year" argument. I have
already given lots of arguments against it and I am tired in repeating
them.

> I'm a little bit suprised what I'm doing wrong here and my only idea is to 
> add them totally by hand to the .cfg and .ps configuration files?

Don't give up. :-)

Thomas
From te at dbs.uni-hannover.de  Thu Feb  5 20:22:46 2004
From: te at dbs.uni-hannover.de (Thomas Esser)
Date: Thu Feb  5 20:23:00 2004
Subject: [tex-live] map, enc and bugs.html
In-Reply-To: <200402041917.i14JHBd24382@f7.net>
References: <20040204190812.GF14225@dbs.uni-hannover.de>
	<200402041917.i14JHBd24382@f7.net>
Message-ID: <20040205192246.GE11701@dbs.uni-hannover.de>

> 2) It seems painful to change the paths out from under the locals
>    without any warning.  We can't expect random sysadmins to read or
>    care about the TDS.

If we make the paths compatible, they are more complicated. So,
we have the choice between an incompatible break to a clean and easy
thing (i.e. only search "new") and another incompatible thing which is
complicated to debug (search "new" and "old").

Really, even if we try to search "old" and "new" locations, we
cannot guarantee that the same files are found than before the
change.

Consider this: someone with a TL 7 installation upgrades to TL 2004. He
reuses his texmf-var tree where he has a psfonts.map file in old. We
have to search "new" before "old", otherwise a new psfonts.map generated
by updmap will not be found.  On the other hand, the user might expect
his modified lucida.map file in his local texmf tree to be found before
the version that TL 2004 distributes in the main tree, but this is no
longer true (because the distributed file exists in new which has higher
precedence than his file in old; even though it resides in a texmf tree
with higher priority).

>    Can we give them a year, that is, we make the 04 release with both
>    the old and new paths, and in the documentation say "hey, next year
>    there's only going to be new paths, so change your local files now"?
>    That way at least there is a chance for a smooth changeover.

No, just one more year of confusion.

Thomas
From karl at freefriends.org  Thu Feb  5 20:47:05 2004
From: karl at freefriends.org (Karl Berry)
Date: Thu Feb  5 20:47:14 2004
Subject: [tex-live] map, enc and bugs.html
In-Reply-To: <20040205192246.GE11701@dbs.uni-hannover.de>
Message-ID: <200402051947.i15Jl5S05002@f7.net>

    No, just one more year of confusion.

Ok, I'm tending to agree.

We can just put the instructions as another post-installation step, and
people will cope.  I'll do that soon.

Thanks.
From harald.von.aschen at gmx.de  Thu Feb  5 21:02:45 2004
From: harald.von.aschen at gmx.de (Harald von Aschen)
Date: Thu Feb  5 21:03:26 2004
Subject: [tex-live] Problems installing doublestroke ps-1 fonts and updmap
In-Reply-To: <20040205183945.GA11701@dbs.uni-hannover.de>
References: <5.2.0.9.2.20040205190306.00a0fec0@213.165.64.20>
	<5.2.0.9.2.20040205032133.00a05ec0@131.188.3.51>
	<5.2.0.9.2.20040205032133.00a05ec0@131.188.3.51>
	<5.2.0.9.2.20040205190306.00a0fec0@213.165.64.20>
Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20040205202817.00a16ec0@213.165.64.20>

At 19:39 05.02.04 +0100, Thomas Esser wrote:

Hi Thomas,

Thank you so much for your fast answer!

> > C:\WINDOWS\Desktop\susaneu>updmap --enable MixedMap dstroke.map
> > Kpathsea released!
> > using config file f:/Programme/TeXLive/texmf-var/web2c/updmap.cfg
> > f:/Programme/TeXLive/texmf-var/web2c/updmap.cfg unchanged. Map files not
> > recreat
> > ed.
>
>Please check the content of
>f:/Programme/TeXLive/texmf-var/web2c/updmap.cfg.  If it already contains
>a line "MixedMap dstroke.map", it makes no sense to --enable it again.
>In that case, just run updmap without any further commandline argument.
>It will rebuild all map files, then.

Thank you. I'm so sorry, I have checked this file already, no dstroke.map 
included.

[...]

>You actually might run into trouble by using a wrong dvips.map /
>pdftex.map due to the overblown search path in TeX Live 2003.
>Please, try something like
>   dvips -d 64 sample2e -o
>to see if the newly generated dvips.map is used or some other file
>in a different texmf tree. In that case, remove the old file that
>shadows the new one.

Hm, here it seems dvips is using 
"texmf-var/fonts/map/dvips/updmap/psfonts.map":

dvips -d 64 sample2e -o sample2e.ps > harald.log

C:\WINDOWS\Desktop\susaneu>dvips -d 64 sample2e -o sample2e.ps
kdebug:fopen(f:/Programme/TeXLive/texmf-var/dvips/config/config.ps, r) => 
0x7c38
b548
kdebug:fclose(0x7c38b548) => 0
kdebug:fopen(f:/Programme/TeXLive/texmf-var/fonts/map/dvips/updmap/psfonts.map,
r) => 0x7c38b548
kdebug:fclose(0x7c38b548) => 0
This is dvips(k) 5.94a Copyright 2003 Radical Eye Software (www.radicaleye.com)
kdebug:fopen(sample2e.dvi, rb) => 0x7c38b548
kdebug:fopen(f:/Programme/TeXLive/texmf/dvips/base/tex.pro, rb) => 0x7c38b568
kdebug:fclose(0x7c38b568) => 0
' TeX output 2004.02.05:2030' -> sample2e.ps
kdebug:fopen(f:/Programme/TeXLive/texmf/dvips/tetex/f7b6d320.enc, rb) => 
0x7c38b
568
kdebug:fclose(0x7c38b568) => 0
kdebug:fopen(f:/Programme/TeXLive/texmf/fontname/texfonts.map, r) => 0x7c38b568
kdebug:fclose(0x7c38b568) => 0
[...]


> > from BlueSky-Research on my old Mac but I'm trying to port many of my
> > documents to Windows and TexLive and there it takes me very long to get
> > them run because the TDS conventions and the search paths are making the
> > most trouble for me.
>
>map files did not have their proper TDS location before Feb. 2003. Now,
>we have to get it right in applications and distributions which takes
>some time.

You are doing here a great job! I'm normally getting the distributions from 
dante on CD once a year so only this Tex-Live-Version makes is necessary 
for me to do some updates as mentioned in the Texnische Kommoedie 4/2003. 
This problems I have seems to be interesting because I really don't what to 
do any more to fix it. Perhaps I have done something wrong during 
installation or a setup file has wrong arguments. But I haven't changed 
anything for now _by hand_, only with the configuration tools from tex-live 
distribution and perhaps there could be a problem? Changing the 
configuration files by hand might be not a great problem but then I can't 
use updmap any more or have to start "shadowing" the orginal files with my 
versions.

>TeX Live 2003 already tries to go the "be compatible" route by having
>the old and the new locations in the search path. I think that this is
>doing more harm than good and that we should not make that mistake again.
>
>But, again and again I hear this "give us one year" argument. I have
>already given lots of arguments against it and I am tired in repeating
>them.

Thank you for this info. As of my view as a user: I have to reorder my 
files to make them working unter Tex-Live so it would be no great problem 
to change all "in once" instead of changing again next version. But 
nevertheless this is not such a big problem because it takes me deeper in 
understanding the underlying system.

> > I'm a little bit suprised what I'm doing wrong here and my only idea is to
> > add them totally by hand to the .cfg and .ps configuration files?
>
>Don't give up. :-)

Thank you so much!

Best regards, Harald 

From harald.von.aschen at gmx.de  Thu Feb  5 21:29:39 2004
From: harald.von.aschen at gmx.de (Harald von Aschen)
Date: Thu Feb  5 21:31:34 2004
Subject: [tex-live] map, enc and bugs.html
In-Reply-To: <20040205192246.GE11701@dbs.uni-hannover.de>
References: <200402041917.i14JHBd24382@f7.net>
	<20040204190812.GF14225@dbs.uni-hannover.de>
	<200402041917.i14JHBd24382@f7.net>
Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20040205212540.00a19ec0@213.165.64.20>

At 20:22 05.02.04 +0100, Thomas Esser wrote:

> >    Can we give them a year, that is, we make the 04 release with both
> >    the old and new paths, and in the documentation say "hey, next year
> >    there's only going to be new paths, so change your local files now"?
> >    That way at least there is a chance for a smooth changeover.
>
>No, just one more year of confusion.

Only of my stupid user view: When you force me now to change all, I'm 
ready. When I'm able to put things sometimes there and sometimes there 
(please see my first question here "[tex-live] problems with fptex 
texmf-local style file not found" and consider this was only and update to 
the actual version) I run into great troubles end of year because perhaps I 
haven't read the docu so exactly that I know what I have done. And the 
learning courve for me as a stupid user would be better to do it in one 
thing than to split it that I'm not able to find out _clear_ what is right 
and what not because the things going wrong are still running. You can see 
in my first post here what a stupid user is: Putting it there where he is 
thinking that it is right. If it is working - leave it.

I would prefer a cut with a good docu so that I know what to do.

Thank you all for your good work here!

Best regards Harald 

From te at dbs.uni-hannover.de  Thu Feb  5 22:38:36 2004
From: te at dbs.uni-hannover.de (Thomas Esser)
Date: Thu Feb  5 22:38:46 2004
Subject: [tex-live] Problems installing doublestroke ps-1 fonts and updmap
In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20040205202817.00a16ec0@213.165.64.20>
References: <5.2.0.9.2.20040205190306.00a0fec0@213.165.64.20>
	<5.2.0.9.2.20040205032133.00a05ec0@131.188.3.51>
	<5.2.0.9.2.20040205032133.00a05ec0@131.188.3.51>
	<5.2.0.9.2.20040205190306.00a0fec0@213.165.64.20>
	<5.2.0.9.2.20040205202817.00a16ec0@213.165.64.20>
Message-ID: <20040205213836.GH11701@dbs.uni-hannover.de>

> Thank you. I'm so sorry, I have checked this file already, no dstroke.map 
> included.

Ok, this looks like a bug in the perl version of updmap (the .exe included
in TeX Live was generated by a perl compiler). I'd say: put that line
into the config file (updmap.cfg) by hand and recreate your map files
by running updmap. Then, get in touch with Fabrice to fix this problem.

> Hm, here it seems dvips is using 
> "texmf-var/fonts/map/dvips/updmap/psfonts.map":

That's good.

> distribution and perhaps there could be a problem? Changing the 
> configuration files by hand might be not a great problem but then I can't 
> use updmap any more or have to start "shadowing" the orginal files with my 
> versions.

For now, it seems that you cannot use the --enable option of updmap.
If you do this "by hand", you don't loose all the other benefits of
updmap. Just remember to call "updmap" after you change the config file
using an editor. BTW: the main reason for adding the command line options
to editing the updmap.cfg file was to support the GUI of the MAC OS/X
port :-)

I agree that it would be bad to add map files individually to the
configuration of dvips, pdftex, xdvi, dvipdfm, ...

Thomas
From Fabrice.Popineau at supelec.fr  Thu Feb  5 23:20:21 2004
From: Fabrice.Popineau at supelec.fr (Fabrice Popineau)
Date: Thu Feb  5 23:21:12 2004
Subject: [tex-live] Problems installing doublestroke ps-1 fonts and updmap
In-Reply-To: <20040205213836.GH11701@dbs.uni-hannover.de> (Thomas Esser's
	message of "Thu, 5 Feb 2004 22:38:36 +0100")
References: <5.2.0.9.2.20040205190306.00a0fec0@213.165.64.20>
	<5.2.0.9.2.20040205032133.00a05ec0@131.188.3.51>
	<5.2.0.9.2.20040205032133.00a05ec0@131.188.3.51>
	<5.2.0.9.2.20040205190306.00a0fec0@213.165.64.20>
	<5.2.0.9.2.20040205202817.00a16ec0@213.165.64.20>
	<20040205213836.GH11701@dbs.uni-hannover.de>
Message-ID: <vfml5ftm.fsf@esemetz.metz.supelec.fr>


> Ok, this looks like a bug in the perl version of updmap (the .exe
> included in TeX Live was generated by a perl compiler). I'd say: put
> that line into the config file (updmap.cfg) by hand and recreate your
> map files by running updmap. Then, get in touch with Fabrice to fix
> this problem.

Ok, I see that my perl script should add the line at the end of the file
if the pattern is not found. Currently it can just enable/disable
mapfiles that are already in the updmap.cfg file.

Sorry for this, next version will fix this problem. Thanks for founding
it.

Fabrice

From petr at olsak.net  Fri Feb  6 11:54:58 2004
From: petr at olsak.net (Petr Olsak)
Date: Fri Feb  6 11:55:10 2004
Subject: [tex-live] map, enc and bugs.html
In-Reply-To: <20040205152344.GC2402@artcom8.artcom-gmbh.de>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0402061141560.9217-100000@newton.feld.cvut.cz>


On Thu, 5 Feb 2004, Martin [iso-8859-1] Schr?der wrote:

> On 2004-02-05 16:17:10 +0100, Hans Hagen wrote:
> > the problem is / may arise
> >
> > (1) with users who use an update of tetex/fptex in combination with
> >     tex live
> > (2) when the next tex live comes out
>   (3) users which use a new version of pdftex with an "old" tex
>       installation

(4) with many documentation/books and packages which assume that
    enc files are in "normal" (old) place.
    There exist books and documentation about
    "how to install your private font" which will be not removed from
    Internet during a while. The books will be not destroyed.
    The packages will be still exist on the Internet with the old
    map files places. Only one example from many others:

    http://www.cstug.cz/stormtype/slido-in-en.html

    There is the texmf/dvips/config/slido.map file in
    slido.tgz package. If this package moves its slido.map
    to new place then this package will be incompatible with old TeX
    systems. Need we two variants of slido.tgz packages?

Best regards

Petr Olsak


From pragma at wxs.nl  Fri Feb  6 12:21:57 2004
From: pragma at wxs.nl (Hans Hagen)
Date: Fri Feb  6 12:22:13 2004
Subject: [tex-live] map, enc and bugs.html
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0402061141560.9217-100000@newton.feld.cvut.c
 z>
References: <20040205152344.GC2402@artcom8.artcom-gmbh.de>
	<Pine.LNX.4.44.0402061141560.9217-100000@newton.feld.cvut.cz>
Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20040206121506.01cba8d8@server-1>

At 11:54 06/02/2004, Petr Olsak wrote:

>(4) with many documentation/books and packages which assume that
>     enc files are in "normal" (old) place.
>     There exist books and documentation about

oeps; i need to do an extensive search -)

when updating manuals, it makes sense not to mention the old paths any more 
since it will confuse users; on the other hand, we may need to include 
something like: starting with version .. of tetex/fptex the paths for map 
and enc files are fonts/map and fonts/enc; also, starting with pdftex 
version ... the cfg files are located in ...; so, what are is/are the 
versions of tetex/fptex/texlive to mention?

Hans   

From preining at logic.at  Fri Feb  6 15:40:56 2004
From: preining at logic.at (Norbert Preining)
Date: Fri Feb  6 15:41:06 2004
Subject: [tex-live] pdftex problem with current p4 depot texconfig
Message-ID: <20040206144056.GA4732@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at>

Hi friends!

texconfig searches for pdftex.cfg via
	kpsewhich -progname=pdftex --format=tex pdftex.cfg
but this cannot be found like this (probably due to reconfiguration and
new variables PDFTEXCONFIG in texmf.cfg

Best wishes

Norbert

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Norbert Preining <preining AT logic DOT at>         Technische Universit?t Wien
gpg DSA: 0x09C5B094      fp: 14DF 2E6C 0307 BE6D AD76  A9C0 D2BF 4AA3 09C5 B094
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
EXETER (n.)
All light household and electrical goods contain a number of vital
components plus at least one exeter. If you've just mended a fuse,
changed a bulb or fixed a blender, the exeter is the small, flat or
round plastic or bakelite piece left over which means you have to undo
everything and start all over again.
			--- Douglas Adams, The Meaning of Liff
From pragma at wxs.nl  Fri Feb  6 16:04:32 2004
From: pragma at wxs.nl (Hans Hagen)
Date: Fri Feb  6 16:05:07 2004
Subject: [tex-live] pdftex problem with current p4 depot texconfig
In-Reply-To: <20040206144056.GA4732@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at>
References: <20040206144056.GA4732@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at>
Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20040206160405.01ccb088@server-1>

At 15:40 06/02/2004, Norbert Preining wrote:
>Hi friends!
>
>texconfig searches for pdftex.cfg via
>         kpsewhich -progname=pdftex --format=tex pdftex.cfg
>but this cannot be found like this (probably due to reconfiguration and
>new variables PDFTEXCONFIG in texmf.cfg

what happens if you leave out the --format

Hans  

From preining at logic.at  Fri Feb  6 16:18:50 2004
From: preining at logic.at (Norbert Preining)
Date: Fri Feb  6 16:18:58 2004
Subject: [tex-live] pdftex problem with current p4 depot texconfig
In-Reply-To: <6.0.1.1.2.20040206160405.01ccb088@server-1>
References: <20040206144056.GA4732@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at>
	<6.0.1.1.2.20040206160405.01ccb088@server-1>
Message-ID: <20040206151850.GB4732@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at>

On Fre, 06 Feb 2004, Hans Hagen wrote:
> >texconfig searches for pdftex.cfg via
> >        kpsewhich -progname=pdftex --format=tex pdftex.cfg
> >but this cannot be found like this (probably due to reconfiguration and
> >new variables PDFTEXCONFIG in texmf.cfg
> 
> what happens if you leave out the --format

Same, still not found.

Best wishes

Norbert

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Norbert Preining <preining AT logic DOT at>         Technische Universit?t Wien
gpg DSA: 0x09C5B094      fp: 14DF 2E6C 0307 BE6D AD76  A9C0 D2BF 4AA3 09C5 B094
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
GOOSNARGH (n.)
Something left over from preparing or eating a meal, which you store
in the fridge despite the fact that you know full well you will never
ever use it.
			--- Douglas Adams, The Meaning of Liff
From preining at logic.at  Fri Feb  6 16:30:45 2004
From: preining at logic.at (Norbert Preining)
Date: Fri Feb  6 16:30:54 2004
Subject: [tex-live] pdftex problem with current p4 depot texconfig
In-Reply-To: <20040206151850.GB4732@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at>
References: <20040206144056.GA4732@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at>
	<6.0.1.1.2.20040206160405.01ccb088@server-1>
	<20040206151850.GB4732@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at>
Message-ID: <20040206153045.GC4732@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at>

On Fre, 06 Feb 2004, Norbert Preining wrote:
> > >texconfig searches for pdftex.cfg via
> > >        kpsewhich -progname=pdftex --format=tex pdftex.cfg
> > >but this cannot be found like this (probably due to reconfiguration and
> > >new variables PDFTEXCONFIG in texmf.cfg
> > 
> > what happens if you leave out the --format
> 
> Same, still not found.

BUT: I forgot the following:

pdftex IS finding the pdftex.cfg file, only kpsewhich is not able to
find it.

I fixed it for now by commenting out the return 1 after the check ;-)

Best wishes

Norbert

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Norbert Preining <preining AT logic DOT at>         Technische Universit?t Wien
gpg DSA: 0x09C5B094      fp: 14DF 2E6C 0307 BE6D AD76  A9C0 D2BF 4AA3 09C5 B094
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
WEMBLEY (n.)
The hideous moment of confirmation that the disaster presaged in the
ely (q.v.) has actually struck.
			--- Douglas Adams, The Meaning of Liff
From pragma at wxs.nl  Fri Feb  6 16:23:30 2004
From: pragma at wxs.nl (Hans Hagen)
Date: Fri Feb  6 17:14:38 2004
Subject: [tex-live] pdftex problem with current p4 depot texconfig
In-Reply-To: <20040206151850.GB4732@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at>
References: <20040206144056.GA4732@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at>
	<6.0.1.1.2.20040206160405.01ccb088@server-1>
	<20040206151850.GB4732@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at>
Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20040206162308.01ca27a8@server-1>

At 16:18 06/02/2004, Norbert Preining wrote:
>On Fre, 06 Feb 2004, Hans Hagen wrote:
> > >texconfig searches for pdftex.cfg via
> > >        kpsewhich -progname=pdftex --format=tex pdftex.cfg
> > >but this cannot be found like this (probably due to reconfiguration and
> > >new variables PDFTEXCONFIG in texmf.cfg
> >
> > what happens if you leave out the --format
>
>Same, still not found.

is the following variable set in your texmf.cnf file?

   PDFTEXCONFIG  = .;$TEXMF/pdftex/{$progname,}//

Hans  

From pragma at wxs.nl  Fri Feb  6 18:36:07 2004
From: pragma at wxs.nl (Hans Hagen)
Date: Fri Feb  6 18:36:24 2004
Subject: [tex-live] afm2pl 
Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20040206181120.01ca5bd8@server-1>

Hi,

I'm currently experimenting with afm2pl as a replacement for afm2tfm. This 
program (by Siep Kroonenberg) is more clever with respect to missing glyphs 
and kerning and also supports letterspacing. It avoids virtual fonts. I'd 
like to see it end up on tex live.

This program uses *.lig files (+ a few more encoding vectors); is it 
possible to use/reserve <texmfroot>/fonts/lig/afm2pl for the lig files?

Hans


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE/POD/CTS
                       Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
  tel: +31 (0)38 477 53 69 | fax: +31 (0)38 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                        information: http://www.pragma-ade.com/roadmap.pdf
                     documentation: http://www.pragma-ade.com/showcase.pdf
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

From preining at logic.at  Fri Feb  6 18:40:34 2004
From: preining at logic.at (Norbert Preining)
Date: Fri Feb  6 18:40:43 2004
Subject: [tex-live] pdftex problem with current p4 depot texconfig
In-Reply-To: <6.0.1.1.2.20040206162308.01ca27a8@server-1>
References: <20040206144056.GA4732@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at>
	<6.0.1.1.2.20040206160405.01ccb088@server-1>
	<20040206151850.GB4732@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at>
	<6.0.1.1.2.20040206162308.01ca27a8@server-1>
Message-ID: <20040206174034.GB18928@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at>

On Fre, 06 Feb 2004, Hans Hagen wrote:
> is the following variable set in your texmf.cnf file?
> 
>   PDFTEXCONFIG  = .;$TEXMF/pdftex/{$progname,}//

Yes, as I said, it is a problem of kpsewhich, not of pdftex.

Best wishes

Norbert

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Norbert Preining <preining AT logic DOT at>         Technische Universit?t Wien
gpg DSA: 0x09C5B094      fp: 14DF 2E6C 0307 BE6D AD76  A9C0 D2BF 4AA3 09C5 B094
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
MAPLEDURHAM (n.)
A hideous piece of chipboard veneer furniture bought in a suburban
high street furniture store and designed to hold exactly a year's
supply of Sunday colour supplements.
			--- Douglas Adams, The Meaning of Liff
From preining at logic.at  Fri Feb  6 19:14:22 2004
From: preining at logic.at (Norbert Preining)
Date: Fri Feb  6 19:14:31 2004
Subject: [tex-live] psfonts.map and dvips
Message-ID: <20040206181422.GA22348@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at>

Hi!

Again a search path problem:

dvips is searching in TEXCONFIG for psfonts.map etc, updmap creates
these file in fonts/map, but TEXCONFIG only include TEXMF/dvips//

This is current p4 depot, or did I miss something?

Shouldn't it be
	TEXCONFIG=$TEXMF/dvips//;$TEXMF/fonts/map//

Best wishes

Norbert

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Norbert Preining <preining AT logic DOT at>         Technische Universit?t Wien
gpg DSA: 0x09C5B094      fp: 14DF 2E6C 0307 BE6D AD76  A9C0 D2BF 4AA3 09C5 B094
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
HOBBS CROSS (n.)
The awkward leaping manoeuvre a girl has to go through in bed in order
to make him sleep on the wet patch.
			--- Douglas Adams, The Meaning of Liff
From te at dbs.uni-hannover.de  Fri Feb  6 19:45:15 2004
From: te at dbs.uni-hannover.de (Thomas Esser)
Date: Fri Feb  6 19:45:32 2004
Subject: [tex-live] map, enc and bugs.html
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0402061141560.9217-100000@newton.feld.cvut.cz>
References: <20040205152344.GC2402@artcom8.artcom-gmbh.de>
	<Pine.LNX.4.44.0402061141560.9217-100000@newton.feld.cvut.cz>
Message-ID: <20040206184515.GC16326@dbs.uni-hannover.de>

Dear Petr,

>     There exist books and documentation about
>     "how to install your private font" which will be not removed from
>     Internet during a while. The books will be not destroyed.

Yes, and if they are properly written, they will tell the user to put
the files into directories where his system searches for them and ideally
contain a reference to the TDS document and to the local documentation.

The TDS has changed a year ago and if we keep the paths compatible to the
old locations (for another year, we already have done this in TL 2003),
people will not adopt to it. And we will have more and more people who
have trouble with wrong files found, because the search paths are set
up to look at various places.

>     The packages will be still exist on the Internet with the old
>     map files places. Only one example from many others:

Ok, this is a direct consequence from the TDS change. It is a pity that
there is no common installation procedure for all systems in an abstract
way. Packages that contain a TDS structure lack an abstraction level.

>     to new place then this package will be incompatible with old TeX
>     systems. Need we two variants of slido.tgz packages?

slido-tds-0.9995.tgz and slido-tds-1.0.tgz, maybe? Or, like Walter has
done it with CTAN:macros/latex/required/psnfss: he has unboundled the
map files from his zip's.

Thomas
From te at dbs.uni-hannover.de  Fri Feb  6 20:21:52 2004
From: te at dbs.uni-hannover.de (Thomas Esser)
Date: Fri Feb  6 20:22:02 2004
Subject: [tex-live] pdftex problem with current p4 depot texconfig
In-Reply-To: <20040206144056.GA4732@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at>
References: <20040206144056.GA4732@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at>
Message-ID: <20040206192152.GD16326@dbs.uni-hannover.de>

> texconfig searches for pdftex.cfg via
> 	kpsewhich -progname=pdftex --format=tex pdftex.cfg
> but this cannot be found like this (probably due to reconfiguration and
> new variables PDFTEXCONFIG in texmf.cfg

Yes, texconfig and kpsewhich need to be changed. I just have done this
(change #4322).

Thanks,

Thomas
From te at dbs.uni-hannover.de  Fri Feb  6 20:26:40 2004
From: te at dbs.uni-hannover.de (Thomas Esser)
Date: Fri Feb  6 20:26:50 2004
Subject: [tex-live] pdftex problem with current p4 depot texconfig
In-Reply-To: <20040206153045.GC4732@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at>
References: <20040206144056.GA4732@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at>
	<6.0.1.1.2.20040206160405.01ccb088@server-1>
	<20040206151850.GB4732@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at>
	<20040206153045.GC4732@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at>
Message-ID: <20040206192640.GE16326@dbs.uni-hannover.de>

> pdftex IS finding the pdftex.cfg file, only kpsewhich is not able to
> find it.

It is, if you call it correctly:
  kpsewhich --format='pdftex config' pdftex.cfg

Anyway, kpsewhich now (after my latest change) knows how to handle
pdftex.cfg even without
  --format='pdftex config'

> I fixed it for now by commenting out the return 1 after the check ;-)

:-)

Thomas
From te at dbs.uni-hannover.de  Fri Feb  6 20:50:22 2004
From: te at dbs.uni-hannover.de (Thomas Esser)
Date: Fri Feb  6 20:50:32 2004
Subject: [tex-live] psfonts.map and dvips
In-Reply-To: <20040206181422.GA22348@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at>
References: <20040206181422.GA22348@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at>
Message-ID: <20040206195022.GF16326@dbs.uni-hannover.de>

> dvips is searching in TEXCONFIG for psfonts.map etc, updmap creates

dvips should use kpse_fontmap_format. I have changed this in my sources
(teTeX), but not in TeX Live, because I thought that Tomas Rokicki or
Tom Kacvinsky would do this here.

Seing that Thomas Kacvinsky is currently editing writet1.c, I just have
send him my patches. So, this will be fixed, soon, I think.

Thomas
From te at dbs.uni-hannover.de  Fri Feb  6 21:01:40 2004
From: te at dbs.uni-hannover.de (Thomas Esser)
Date: Fri Feb  6 21:01:49 2004
Subject: [tex-live] map, enc and bugs.html
In-Reply-To: <6.0.1.1.2.20040206121506.01cba8d8@server-1>
References: <20040205152344.GC2402@artcom8.artcom-gmbh.de>
	<Pine.LNX.4.44.0402061141560.9217-100000@newton.feld.cvut.cz>
	<6.0.1.1.2.20040206121506.01cba8d8@server-1>
Message-ID: <20040206200140.GG16326@dbs.uni-hannover.de>

> and enc files are fonts/map and fonts/enc; also, starting with pdftex 
> version ... the cfg files are located in ...; so, what are is/are the 
> versions of tetex/fptex/texlive to mention?

pdftex: the version that follows 1.11b (i.e. 1.11c or a.12a!?)
teTeX: any stable release after 2.0.2 (will propably be named 2.1.0)
       and any beta released in 2004 or later.
TeX Live: TeX Live 2004

Thomas
From Gerben.Wierda at rna.nl  Fri Feb  6 23:41:56 2004
From: Gerben.Wierda at rna.nl (Gerben Wierda)
Date: Fri Feb  6 23:46:06 2004
Subject: [tex-live] Bizarre perforce situation
Message-ID: <AAEB0598-58F5-11D8-955C-000A95901A7E@rna.nl>

My Mac OS X redistribution is based on TL and to be sure that I get the 
same stuff when I rebuild, I use a date spec for p4 sync.

My last stable date according to my makefile is source 
@2004/01/06:07:00:00 and I have worked for a while with that release 
without problems. The pdftex of that release used to be 3.141592-1.11a. 
I can be mistaken, but this is what I think.

Now the bizarre thing. When I currently do the p4 sync I get 
3.141592-1.11b. And this 1.11b version is incompatible with the texmf 
tree that make install from TL produces. That texmf.cnf has

PDFTEXCONFIG = .;$TEXMF/pdftex/{$progname,}//

And my pdftex.cfg is in

$TEXMF/pdftex/config/pdftex.cfg

But a texconfig -localsetup fails to locate pdftex.cfg and starts a 
dialog  telling me so.

Now the weird thing is that this should work. After all, the texmf.cnf 
and pdftex are from the same release. But it doesn't.

From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk  Sat Feb  7 00:20:55 2004
From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz)
Date: Sat Feb  7 00:21:03 2004
Subject: [tex-live] Re: Bizarre perforce situation
In-Reply-To: <AAEB0598-58F5-11D8-955C-000A95901A7E@rna.nl>
References: <AAEB0598-58F5-11D8-955C-000A95901A7E@rna.nl>
Message-ID: <20040206232054.GD20387@herald.ox.ac.uk>

On Fri, Feb 06, 2004 at 11:41:56PM +0100, Gerben Wierda wrote:
> 
> My last stable date according to my makefile is source 
> @2004/01/06:07:00:00 and I have worked for a while with that release 
> without problems. The pdftex of that release used to be 3.141592-1.11a. 
> I can be mistaken, but this is what I think.

the "source" in Perforce is not up to date. the texmf tree
is up to date with source.development.

yes. I know its all a mess. I really do! but
I just don't have any spare moments to even think about it


sebastian
From pragma at wxs.nl  Sat Feb  7 01:46:39 2004
From: pragma at wxs.nl (Hans Hagen)
Date: Sat Feb  7 01:47:56 2004
Subject: [tex-live] pdftex problem with current p4 depot texconfig
In-Reply-To: <20040206192640.GE16326@dbs.uni-hannover.de>
References: <20040206144056.GA4732@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at>
	<6.0.1.1.2.20040206160405.01ccb088@server-1>
	<20040206151850.GB4732@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at>
	<20040206153045.GC4732@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at>
	<20040206192640.GE16326@dbs.uni-hannover.de>
Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20040207014305.01d1bf30@localhost>

At 20:26 06/02/2004, Thomas Esser wrote:

>It is, if you call it correctly:
>   kpsewhich --format='pdftex config' pdftex.cfg

strange, not in my version, did fabrice include that in fptex?

>Anyway, kpsewhich now (after my latest change) knows how to handle
>pdftex.cfg even without
>   --format='pdftex config'

Just curious, is this a generic feature, i.e. 'any program config' ?

Hans


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                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE/POD/CTS
                       Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
  tel: +31 (0)38 477 53 69 | fax: +31 (0)38 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
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                     documentation: http://www.pragma-ade.com/showcase.pdf
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From te at dbs.uni-hannover.de  Sat Feb  7 08:15:08 2004
From: te at dbs.uni-hannover.de (Thomas Esser)
Date: Sat Feb  7 08:15:19 2004
Subject: [tex-live] pdftex problem with current p4 depot texconfig
In-Reply-To: <6.0.1.1.2.20040207014305.01d1bf30@localhost>
References: <20040206144056.GA4732@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at>
	<6.0.1.1.2.20040206160405.01ccb088@server-1>
	<20040206151850.GB4732@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at>
	<20040206153045.GC4732@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at>
	<20040206192640.GE16326@dbs.uni-hannover.de>
	<6.0.1.1.2.20040207014305.01d1bf30@localhost>
Message-ID: <20040207071507.GA3619@dbs.uni-hannover.de>

> >It is, if you call it correctly:
> >  kpsewhich --format='pdftex config' pdftex.cfg
> 
> strange, not in my version, did fabrice include that in fptex?

I don't know. I am only speaking about the current source.development
(and the same is in my teTeX sources which are still unpublished).

> >Anyway, kpsewhich now (after my latest change) knows how to handle
> >pdftex.cfg even without
> >  --format='pdftex config'
> 
> Just curious, is this a generic feature, i.e. 'any program config' ?

No, kpathsea supports a fixed list of search path and each can be
used by kpsewhich. The source is in tex-file.c:

    #define PDFTEXCONFIG_ENVS "PDFTEXCONFIG"
    ...
        case kpse_pdftex_config_format:
          INIT_FORMAT ("pdftex config", DEFAULT_PDFTEXCONFIG, PDFTEXCONFIG_ENVS);
          break;
    ...

and in tex-file.h:

    typedef enum
    {
      kpse_gf_format,
      kpse_pk_format,
    ...
      kpse_pdftex_config_format,
      kpse_last_format /* one past last index */
    } kpse_file_format_type;

and texmf.in:

    PDFTEXCONFIG = .;$TEXMF/pdftex/{$progname,}//

The string given as first argument to INIT_FORMAT can be used at the
commandline of kpsewhich to select the format. One needs to do this
if kpsewhich cannot guess the search path on its own. Usually, it
does this guess based on the file extension and this works fine
for most search formats. E.g. vf / tfm are always guessed correctly.

Config files are a problem, because many programs have them and there
is no clear namespace by extension. There are even tex input files
named .cfg, so we cannot "register" the .cfg extension to any of
these programs (like pdftex which has pdftex.cfg).

To make kpsewhich more user-friendly, it has a hard-weired guess for
some file names. This list used to include e.g. psfonts.map, but this
exception could be removed which the new restructuring for map files.
Yesterday, I have added a special case for pdftex.cfg, so people
can now say
  kpsewhich pdftex.cfg

In all my scripts, I don't rely on any guess of kpsewhich. I explicitly
select the search path.

Thomas
From te at dbs.uni-hannover.de  Sat Feb  7 08:27:10 2004
From: te at dbs.uni-hannover.de (Thomas Esser)
Date: Sat Feb  7 08:27:19 2004
Subject: [tex-live] Bizarre perforce situation
In-Reply-To: <AAEB0598-58F5-11D8-955C-000A95901A7E@rna.nl>
References: <AAEB0598-58F5-11D8-955C-000A95901A7E@rna.nl>
Message-ID: <20040207072710.GB3619@dbs.uni-hannover.de>

> Now the bizarre thing. When I currently do the p4 sync I get 
> 3.141592-1.11b. And this 1.11b version is incompatible with the texmf 
> tree that make install from TL produces. That texmf.cnf has

pdftex 1.11b does not yet use the new search path that is set up by
$PDFTEXCONFIG. The config file is still used along $TEXINPUTS.

> $TEXMF/pdftex/config/pdftex.cfg

So, you have to make sure that your TEXINPUTS.pdf<something>
search paths are set up to search texmf/pdftex//

> Now the weird thing is that this should work. After all, the texmf.cnf 
> and pdftex are from the same release. But it doesn't.

Sometimes, things are not "in sync". E.g. currently, dvips is broken in
TeX Live's source.development. I could fix it, but I am not the maintainer
for this part, so I sit down and wait.

After I have done changes to kpathsea, it took just a few days until
Martin has updated pdftex in source.development, and now we have them.

I have no idea how the schedule for updating the Build/source tree is.
I leave this up to Sebastian.

Thomas
From Gerben.Wierda at rna.nl  Sat Feb  7 08:59:47 2004
From: Gerben.Wierda at rna.nl (Gerben Wierda)
Date: Sat Feb  7 08:59:57 2004
Subject: [tex-live] Bizarre perforce situation
In-Reply-To: <20040207072710.GB3619@dbs.uni-hannover.de>
References: <AAEB0598-58F5-11D8-955C-000A95901A7E@rna.nl>
	<20040207072710.GB3619@dbs.uni-hannover.de>
Message-ID: <993E696E-5943-11D8-972A-000A95901A7E@rna.nl>

The bizarre thing is that this was all ok before and when I extract the 
source tree (*not* source.development) from TL4 (Sep 2003) gives me a 
texmf.in and a texconfig which calls kpsewhich to find pdftex.cfg and 
fails.

Now, given that I put that release out in September of last year I am 
pretty sure it worked. It looks like p4 is serving me completely wrong 
files.

G

On Feb 7, 2004, at 8:27 AM, Thomas Esser wrote:

>> Now the bizarre thing. When I currently do the p4 sync I get
>> 3.141592-1.11b. And this 1.11b version is incompatible with the texmf
>> tree that make install from TL produces. That texmf.cnf has
>
> pdftex 1.11b does not yet use the new search path that is set up by
> $PDFTEXCONFIG. The config file is still used along $TEXINPUTS.
>
>> $TEXMF/pdftex/config/pdftex.cfg
>
> So, you have to make sure that your TEXINPUTS.pdf<something>
> search paths are set up to search texmf/pdftex//
>
>> Now the weird thing is that this should work. After all, the texmf.cnf
>> and pdftex are from the same release. But it doesn't.
>
> Sometimes, things are not "in sync". E.g. currently, dvips is broken in
> TeX Live's source.development. I could fix it, but I am not the 
> maintainer
> for this part, so I sit down and wait.
>
> After I have done changes to kpathsea, it took just a few days until
> Martin has updated pdftex in source.development, and now we have them.
>
> I have no idea how the schedule for updating the Build/source tree is.
> I leave this up to Sebastian.
>
> Thomas
> _______________________________________________
> TeX Live mailing list
> http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/tex-live
>

From Gerben.Wierda at rna.nl  Sat Feb  7 09:01:48 2004
From: Gerben.Wierda at rna.nl (Gerben Wierda)
Date: Sat Feb  7 09:01:58 2004
Subject: [tex-live] Re: Bizarre perforce situation
In-Reply-To: <20040206232054.GD20387@herald.ox.ac.uk>
References: <AAEB0598-58F5-11D8-955C-000A95901A7E@rna.nl>
	<20040206232054.GD20387@herald.ox.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <E178C90A-5943-11D8-972A-000A95901A7E@rna.nl>

On Feb 7, 2004, at 12:20 AM, Sebastian Rahtz wrote:

> On Fri, Feb 06, 2004 at 11:41:56PM +0100, Gerben Wierda wrote:
>>
>> My last stable date according to my makefile is source
>> @2004/01/06:07:00:00 and I have worked for a while with that release
>> without problems. The pdftex of that release used to be 
>> 3.141592-1.11a.
>> I can be mistaken, but this is what I think.
>
> the "source" in Perforce is not up to date. the texmf tree
> is up to date with source.development.
>
> yes. I know its all a mess. I really do! but
> I just don't have any spare moments to even think about it

Sebastian, I desperately need the *source* of Sep 23, 2003 and/or the 
*source* of Jan 6 2004. I do not mind that the current version of 
source is a problem. I mind that I ask for the Sep 2003 version and I 
do not get it. Is p4 a version control system or what?

From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk  Sat Feb  7 12:07:59 2004
From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz)
Date: Sat Feb  7 12:12:30 2004
Subject: [tex-live] Re: Bizarre perforce situation
In-Reply-To: <E178C90A-5943-11D8-972A-000A95901A7E@rna.nl>
References: <AAEB0598-58F5-11D8-955C-000A95901A7E@rna.nl>
	<20040206232054.GD20387@herald.ox.ac.uk>
	<E178C90A-5943-11D8-972A-000A95901A7E@rna.nl>
Message-ID: <4024C70F.9060206@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>

Gerben Wierda wrote:

>
> Sebastian, I desperately need the *source* of Sep 23, 2003 and/or the 
> *source* of Jan 6 2004. I do not mind that the current version of 
> source is a problem. I mind that I ask for the Sep 2003 version and I 
> do not get it. Is p4 a version control system or what?
>
I think I maybe did not read your message carefully enough. You are 
saying that when you do a sync
to a particular date you do not get the files you expect? when I do a 
sync of Build/source for files from Jan 6, I get
the source for pdftex 1.11b, as expected.  Are you saying that you don't?

of course, if you sync the Master/texmf tree for January 6th, you may or 
may not get the right answer. The Build/source and Master/texmf
trees are not formally in sync; and indeed probably never have been.

I am guessing that the source of your continued frustration with this 
system is that the thing
is not delivered as a unit, which all works together, but as two 
separately maintained trees which
may or may not work together at a particular time. Usually, this does 
not matter, but at a time
of serious changes in the programs which affect configuration files 
stored in the texmf tree then everything falls
to pieces.

The answer is, of course, to maintain the texmf/web2c directory in with 
the source, not with the genuinely system-independent
tree.

should we move to having one tree only for configuration files 
(including pool files)?

TeX has become a monster which simply devours its own vital organs.

Sebastian
From Gerben.Wierda at rna.nl  Sat Feb  7 12:24:20 2004
From: Gerben.Wierda at rna.nl (Gerben Wierda)
Date: Sat Feb  7 13:06:31 2004
Subject: [tex-live] Solved: the preforce problem I had. Request
In-Reply-To: <993E696E-5943-11D8-972A-000A95901A7E@rna.nl>
References: <AAEB0598-58F5-11D8-955C-000A95901A7E@rna.nl>
	<20040207072710.GB3619@dbs.uni-hannover.de>
	<993E696E-5943-11D8-972A-000A95901A7E@rna.nl>
Message-ID: <2C9E7A47-5960-11D8-86B2-000A95901A7E@rna.nl>

I found the reason for my problem and it was not Build but Master. I 
had updated my Master tree recently.

Why did this matter? A while back (September) I found out that there 
were two sources of texmf.cnf in TL. In the source directory (built on 
make install) and in Master. At that time, the one in source was really 
outdated and I set up my build process to copy the one from Master.

Now, recently I updated Master to get newer versions of other stuff and 
of course the texmf.cnf there was updated as well. And that current 
version does not work well with TeX built from older sources from Build 
(as recent as Jan 6).

I would like to request the removal of texmf.cnf from the Master tree. 
It is after all generated from the sources in Build as it is closely 
bound to how sources (like kpathsea-based ones) operate. Having two 
versions is confusing and is a source of conflicts. It is not 
orthogonal.

In fact, nothing in Master should for its applicability depend on the 
version that is drawn from Build.

G

From Gerben.Wierda at rna.nl  Sat Feb  7 13:14:31 2004
From: Gerben.Wierda at rna.nl (Gerben Wierda)
Date: Sat Feb  7 13:14:42 2004
Subject: [tex-live] Re: Bizarre perforce situation
In-Reply-To: <4024C70F.9060206@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>
References: <AAEB0598-58F5-11D8-955C-000A95901A7E@rna.nl>
	<20040206232054.GD20387@herald.ox.ac.uk>
	<E178C90A-5943-11D8-972A-000A95901A7E@rna.nl>
	<4024C70F.9060206@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <2F7070DC-5967-11D8-86B2-000A95901A7E@rna.nl>

On Feb 7, 2004, at 12:07 PM, Sebastian Rahtz wrote:

> I am guessing that the source of your continued frustration with this 
> system is that the thing
> is not delivered as a unit, which all works together, but as two 
> separately maintained trees which
> may or may not work together at a particular time. Usually, this does 
> not matter, but at a time
> of serious changes in the programs which affect configuration files 
> stored in the texmf tree then everything falls
> to pieces.

You were right on track (as you can see from my other message).

It would be good, I think, if the stuff in the texmf tree that is 
linked to versions of the programs from Build would be separated from 
the rest of the texmf tree.

I had to do that a while ago when I started to combine TL for programs 
with teTeX for texmf. It was pretty easy and Thomas removed a few items 
in his texmf tree that were binary-related.

This kind of a split makes Master independent from Build. The only 
thing needed to make it work is a reorganisation of texmf.cnf, and 
since we are doing that now anyway, this is the perfect moment to 
create Build/Master independence as far as Master parts are oncerned 
that are generated from Build by a make install.

G

From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk  Sat Feb  7 13:14:06 2004
From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz)
Date: Sat Feb  7 13:16:22 2004
Subject: [tex-live] Re: Bizarre perforce situation
In-Reply-To: <2F7070DC-5967-11D8-86B2-000A95901A7E@rna.nl>
References: <AAEB0598-58F5-11D8-955C-000A95901A7E@rna.nl>
	<20040206232054.GD20387@herald.ox.ac.uk>
	<E178C90A-5943-11D8-972A-000A95901A7E@rna.nl>
	<4024C70F.9060206@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>
	<2F7070DC-5967-11D8-86B2-000A95901A7E@rna.nl>
Message-ID: <4024D68E.2030809@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>

Gerben Wierda wrote:

>
> This kind of a split makes Master independent from Build. The only 
> thing needed to make it work is a reorganisation of texmf.cnf, and 
> since we are doing that now anyway, this is the perfect moment to 
> create Build/Master independence as far as Master parts are oncerned 
> that are generated from Build by a make install.

yes, lets do it. have you got a concrete plan we can implement?

Sebastian
From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk  Sat Feb  7 13:20:45 2004
From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz)
Date: Sat Feb  7 13:23:00 2004
Subject: [tex-live] let's make some decisions
Message-ID: <4024D81D.3040105@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>

Who would disagree with the following decisions?

 1.  When TeX Live 2004 is released, we freeze the Perforce repository 
and migrate it to CVS on sarovar.
       Or possibly Subversion, if Radhakrishnan is interested

 2.  We declare the TeX Live documentation to be entirely public domain. 
We all give up
       whatever copyright we ever thought we held. Let it go.

 3. We work towards a release in which all TeXish programs are linked to 
pdfetex, with the exception of "tex" itself.  So if you type "tex", you 
get Knuth's unadulterated original. if you type latex, etex, pdftex, 
frlatex, whatever, you get pdfetex. The only difference is that the pdf* 
ones have format file configurations in which output is set to PDF.

who protests?

Sedbastuan
From Gerben.Wierda at rna.nl  Sat Feb  7 13:23:01 2004
From: Gerben.Wierda at rna.nl (Gerben Wierda)
Date: Sat Feb  7 13:23:12 2004
Subject: [tex-live] Re: Bizarre perforce situation
In-Reply-To: <4024D68E.2030809@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>
References: <AAEB0598-58F5-11D8-955C-000A95901A7E@rna.nl>
	<20040206232054.GD20387@herald.ox.ac.uk>
	<E178C90A-5943-11D8-972A-000A95901A7E@rna.nl>
	<4024C70F.9060206@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>
	<2F7070DC-5967-11D8-86B2-000A95901A7E@rna.nl>
	<4024D68E.2030809@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <5F2F0DBE-5968-11D8-86B2-000A95901A7E@rna.nl>

On Feb 7, 2004, at 1:14 PM, Sebastian Rahtz wrote:

> Gerben Wierda wrote:
>
>>
>> This kind of a split makes Master independent from Build. The only 
>> thing needed to make it work is a reorganisation of texmf.cnf, and 
>> since we are doing that now anyway, this is the perfect moment to 
>> create Build/Master independence as far as Master parts are oncerned 
>> that are generated from Build by a make install.
>
> yes, lets do it. have you got a concrete plan we can implement?

Yes:

1. Run a make install in Build into a separate location
2. Take whatever is in that location's texmf tree (like texmf.cnf) and 
remove these from Master
3. Rename the texmf tree that is master from texmf to texmf-texlive
4. Keep the texmf name for the texmf tree generated by Build's make 
install
5. Change texmf.in so that the outcome is *like* this (without the 
share for you still I think though I would love teTeX and TL to be 
equal here)

% TEXMFMAIN contains the TEXMF tree installed by make install of the 
programs
TEXMFMAIN = $SELFAUTOPARENT/share/texmf
% TEXMFTE contains the main TEXMF tree from teTeX
TEXMFTL = $SELFAUTOPARENT/share/texmf-texlive
% TEXMFLOCAL contains any local system TeXadmin overrides
TEXMFLOCAL = $SELFAUTOPARENT/share/texmf-local
% $VARTEXMF is where texconfig writes its local settings
VARTEXMF = $TEXMFLOCAL
% User texmf trees can be catered for like this...
HOMETEXMF = $HOME/Library/texmf

% Our complete search path, the last three are searched through
% ls-R exclusively, which means that you have to run texhash
% after you have added, moved or deleted files in the tree
TEXMF={$HOMETEXMF,!!$TEXMFLOCAL,!!$TEXMFTL,!!$TEXMFMAIN}

etc.

From beebe at math.utah.edu  Sat Feb  7 14:19:59 2004
From: beebe at math.utah.edu (Nelson H. F. Beebe)
Date: Sat Feb  7 14:20:10 2004
Subject: [tex-live] Proposal for distribution snapshots
Message-ID: <CMM.0.92.0.1076159998.beebe@psi.math.utah.edu>

Given the recent issues with getting a working (and possible
historical) copy of TeXware out of the repository, and given that only
a core of developers has access to the revision control system, how
about setting up a cron job that, say, at midnight UTC, created a
daily snapshot of the entire source archive in .tar.gz or .tar.bz2
form, with a timestamp in ISO 8601 format as part of its name, such as
tex-live-2004-02-07.tar.bz2, with those snapshots accessible to anyone
via normal FTP and HTTP?

The texlive-2003-9/texmf/source tree takes 63MB, so each compressed
snapshot would be about 20MB.  To verify that, I ran this test on my
1.05GHz Sun Sun Blade 2000:

	% cd /home/0072/texlive-2003-9/

	% time env BZIP2=-9 tar cfj /tmp/foo.tar.bz2 texmf/source
	38.14u 4.58s 5:16.33 13.5%

	% time env GZIP=-9 tar cfz /tmp/foo.tar.gz texmf/source
	25.72u 3.11s 0:40.58 71.0%

	% time zip -rq /tmp/foo.zip texmf/source
	12.81u 1.22s 0:23.37 60.0%

	% ls -l /tmp/foo.tar.*
	-rw-rw-r--  1 beebe staff 13646720 Feb  7 05:55 /tmp/foo.tar.bz2
	-rw-rw-r--  1 beebe staff 16344671 Feb  7 05:55 /tmp/foo.tar.gz
	-rw-rw-r--  1 beebe staff 18644242 Feb  7 06:04 /tmp/foo.zip

We could make 78 snapshots/GB in bz2 format, 65/GB in .gz format, or
57/GB in .zip format.

The /home/ftp/texlive/Source tree on tug.org currently has 16GB free,
so I don't see that the required space would be a problem: we could
keep a year's worth of snapshots in 5GB.

Also, the ready availability of snapshots might encourage other sites
to mirror them, giving valuable data protection and distribution.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- Nelson H. F. Beebe                    Tel: +1 801 581 5254                  -
- University of Utah                    FAX: +1 801 581 4148                  -
- Department of Mathematics, 110 LCB    Internet e-mail: beebe@math.utah.edu  -
- 155 S 1400 E RM 233                       beebe@acm.org  beebe@computer.org -
- Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0090, USA    URL: http://www.math.utah.edu/~beebe  -
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From karl at freefriends.org  Sat Feb  7 15:03:41 2004
From: karl at freefriends.org (Karl Berry)
Date: Sat Feb  7 15:03:52 2004
Subject: [tex-live] Proposal for distribution snapshots
In-Reply-To: <CMM.0.92.0.1076159998.beebe@psi.math.utah.edu>
Message-ID: <200402071403.i17E3f323461@f7.net>

    The texlive-2003-9/texmf/source tree takes 63MB, 

That seems insufficient, as the recent discussion has shown.  As far as I
can see, we would need a snapshot of the entire thing (including
Master), not just texmf/source, to have something that was actually
useful.

We could still do it, although I'm not sure how big a .tar.bz2 of
/home/tlprod will end up being.
From karl at freefriends.org  Sat Feb  7 15:05:04 2004
From: karl at freefriends.org (Karl Berry)
Date: Sat Feb  7 15:05:14 2004
Subject: [tex-live] let's make some decisions
In-Reply-To: <4024D81D.3040105@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <200402071405.i17E54W23718@f7.net>

     2.  We declare the TeX Live documentation to be entirely public domain. 

I would like to do this for the TL'04 release.
I'm not sure if that's what you were saying or not.


I have no objection to the other two proposals.
From karl at freefriends.org  Sat Feb  7 15:50:14 2004
From: karl at freefriends.org (Karl Berry)
Date: Sat Feb  7 15:50:23 2004
Subject: [tex-live] afm2pl and <texmf>/fonts/lig
In-Reply-To: <6.0.1.1.2.20040206181120.01ca5bd8@server-1>
Message-ID: <200402071450.i17EoEm00591@f7.net>

    I'd like to see it end up on tex live.

I expect it would be helpful if it had a standard configure/Makefile.

    This program uses *.lig files (+ a few more encoding vectors); is it 
    possible to use/reserve <texmfroot>/fonts/lig/afm2pl for the lig files?

Sounds sensible.  I'm cc-ing the twg-tds list to catch anyone who might
not be on tex-live.  Does anyone (on either list) have any comments or
objections to the proposed new fonts/lig directory?

(BTW, Hans (and maybe others), you might want to add yourself to
twg-tds.  http://www.tug.org/mailman/listinfo/twg-tds )



Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 18:36:07 +0100
From: Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl>
To: tex-live@tug.org
Subject: [tex-live] afm2pl 

Hi,

I'm currently experimenting with afm2pl as a replacement for afm2tfm. This 
program (by Siep Kroonenberg) is more clever with respect to missing glyphs 
and kerning and also supports letterspacing. It avoids virtual fonts. I'd 
like to see it end up on tex live.

This program uses *.lig files (+ a few more encoding vectors); is it 
possible to use/reserve <texmfroot>/fonts/lig/afm2pl for the lig files?
From pragma at wxs.nl  Sat Feb  7 15:46:41 2004
From: pragma at wxs.nl (Hans Hagen)
Date: Sat Feb  7 16:15:20 2004
Subject: [tex-live] Solved: the preforce problem I had. Request
In-Reply-To: <2C9E7A47-5960-11D8-86B2-000A95901A7E@rna.nl>
References: <AAEB0598-58F5-11D8-955C-000A95901A7E@rna.nl>
	<20040207072710.GB3619@dbs.uni-hannover.de>
	<993E696E-5943-11D8-972A-000A95901A7E@rna.nl>
	<2C9E7A47-5960-11D8-86B2-000A95901A7E@rna.nl>
Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20040207154413.01ff0898@localhost>

At 12:24 07/02/2004, Gerben Wierda wrote:

>I would like to request the removal of texmf.cnf from the Master tree. It 
>is after all generated from the sources in Build as it is closely bound to 
>how sources (like kpathsea-based ones) operate. Having two versions is 
>confusing and is a source of conflicts. It is not orthogonal.

eh .. i don't know the details but are you saying that texmf.cnf is 
generated from the source tree? if so, whow ... who then has a mental 
picture of that (we should lock them up and protect them pretty well so 
that they will not get lost)

Hans  

From pragma at wxs.nl  Sat Feb  7 15:40:41 2004
From: pragma at wxs.nl (Hans Hagen)
Date: Sat Feb  7 16:15:22 2004
Subject: [tex-live] Proposal for distribution snapshots
In-Reply-To: <CMM.0.92.0.1076159998.beebe@psi.math.utah.edu>
References: <CMM.0.92.0.1076159998.beebe@psi.math.utah.edu>
Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20040207153553.01bd8ec0@localhost>

At 14:19 07/02/2004, Nelson H. F. Beebe wrote:
>Given the recent issues with getting a working (and possible
>historical) copy of TeXware out of the repository, and given that only
>a core of developers has access to the revision control system, how
>about setting up a cron job that, say, at midnight UTC, created a
>daily snapshot of the entire source archive in .tar.gz or .tar.bz2
>form, with a timestamp in ISO 8601 format as part of its name, such as
>tex-live-2004-02-07.tar.bz2, with those snapshots accessible to anyone
>via normal FTP and HTTP?

One thing i've that occasionally pops up in my mind is that given the long 
history of tex cum suis, some good longitudinal archiving could be of 
benefit to future research. Some day -maybe 100 years from now- there will 
be a branch of history/computer science dealing with changes in 
design/paradigms/coding/documentation/whatever and then archives become 
important; i have no idea what is available now but i'm sure that ctan is 
not an archive in that sense. The only long term archives that we have are 
the ctan snapshots and tex lives, and we may hope that they will be copied 
to the latest media occasionally.

So, maybe we should start some cross-usergroup history project, a real 
archive in the historic sense ...

Hans  

From pragma at wxs.nl  Sat Feb  7 16:02:45 2004
From: pragma at wxs.nl (Hans Hagen)
Date: Sat Feb  7 16:15:24 2004
Subject: [tex-live] let's make some decisions
In-Reply-To: <4024D81D.3040105@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>
References: <4024D81D.3040105@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20040207154709.01fee808@localhost>

At 13:20 07/02/2004, Sebastian Rahtz wrote:

>1.  When TeX Live 2004 is released, we freeze the Perforce repository and 
>migrate it to CVS on sarovar.
>       Or possibly Subversion, if Radhakrishnan is interested

a few days ago i ran into subversion, printed some manuals, and -with the 
tex live discussion in mind- it looked quite promissing, so you got my 
blessing (for what it's worth)

>2.  We declare the TeX Live documentation to be entirely public domain. We 
>all give up
>       whatever copyright we ever thought we held. Let it go.

or take one of those open document licences (just wondering, what if some 
publisher prints the docu and then claims copyright so that we can no 
longer distribute it with tex live; we haven't sorted out the 
bad-publishing-cd-boys issues yet

>3. We work towards a release in which all TeXish programs are linked to 
>pdfetex, with the exception of "tex" itself.  So if you type "tex", you 
>get Knuth's unadulterated original. if you type latex, etex, pdftex, 
>frlatex, whatever, you get pdfetex. The only difference is that the pdf* 
>ones have format file configurations in which output is set to PDF.

sounds ok to me, although ... the main difference between a pdf and dvi is 
in loading driver macros for the output engine,

so, one can even have the same formats for dvi/pdf and have the loading 
done with \everyjob (if needed), dependent on the \pdfoutput flag, or the 
settings in the pdfconfig file; something (for latex):

\everyjob % probably appended
   {\ifcase\pdfoutput
      % we're in dvi mode, probably default
    \else
      % load hyperref or so
    \fi}

>who protests?

not me

Hans  

From pragma at wxs.nl  Sat Feb  7 16:11:15 2004
From: pragma at wxs.nl (Hans Hagen)
Date: Sat Feb  7 16:15:25 2004
Subject: [tex-live] pdftex problem with current p4 depot texconfig
In-Reply-To: <20040207071507.GA3619@dbs.uni-hannover.de>
References: <20040206144056.GA4732@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at>
	<6.0.1.1.2.20040206160405.01ccb088@server-1>
	<20040206151850.GB4732@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at>
	<20040206153045.GC4732@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at>
	<20040206192640.GE16326@dbs.uni-hannover.de>
	<6.0.1.1.2.20040207014305.01d1bf30@localhost>
	<20040207071507.GA3619@dbs.uni-hannover.de>
Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20040207160432.02bc87c0@localhost>

At 08:15 07/02/2004, you wrote:

> > Just curious, is this a generic feature, i.e. 'any program config' ?
>
>No, kpathsea supports a fixed list of search path and each can be
>used by kpsewhich. The source is in tex-file.c:

...

ah, thanks for the explanation, nice concept

>does this guess based on the file extension and this works fine
>for most search formats. E.g. vf / tfm are always guessed correctly.

talking of suffixes, is it possible to add support for fast html and pdf 
searching (handy for documentation) as well as pl,rb,py (handy for 
utilities) and maybe even xml (for sources) [i mean the suffixes that are 
also reported with --help)

>Config files are a problem, because many programs have them and there
>is no clear namespace by extension. There are even tex input files
>named .cfg, so we cannot "register" the .cfg extension to any of
>these programs (like pdftex which has pdftex.cfg).

a pitty, since we no longer have msdos around, is there a solution in 
whatever.pdftex.cfg, e.e. double suffixes?

>To make kpsewhich more user-friendly, it has a hard-weired guess for
>some file names. This list used to include e.g. psfonts.map, but this
>exception could be removed which the new restructuring for map files.
>Yesterday, I have added a special case for pdftex.cfg, so people
>can now say
>   kpsewhich pdftex.cfg
>
>In all my scripts, I don't rely on any guess of kpsewhich. I explicitly
>select the search path.

maybe also hardwire an alias for pdfetex.cfg given spqr's suggestion to 
move to pdfetex (some day we may have to consider how to handle the 
extension axis, e ml enc  etc)

(the more thinsg we fix now, the easier it will be to announce tex live 
2004 [nice binary number] as 'the new tex' thing)

Hans


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE/POD/CTS
                       Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
  tel: +31 (0)38 477 53 69 | fax: +31 (0)38 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
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From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk  Sat Feb  7 16:47:12 2004
From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz)
Date: Sat Feb  7 16:49:28 2004
Subject: [tex-live] Proposal for distribution snapshots
In-Reply-To: <CMM.0.92.0.1076159998.beebe@psi.math.utah.edu>
References: <CMM.0.92.0.1076159998.beebe@psi.math.utah.edu>
Message-ID: <40250880.9090003@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>

Nelson H. F. Beebe wrote:

>Given the recent issues with getting a working (and possible
>historical) copy of TeXware out of the repository, and given that only
>a core of developers has access to the revision control system, how
>about setting up a cron job that, say, at midnight UTC, created a
>daily snapshot of the entire source archive in .tar.gz or .tar.bz2
>form, with a timestamp in ISO 8601 format as part of its name, such as
>tex-live-2004-02-07.tar.bz2, with those snapshots accessible to anyone
>via normal FTP and HTTP?
>  
>

sounds eminently reasonable. you mean starting now?

Sebastian
From karl at freefriends.org  Sat Feb  7 17:49:37 2004
From: karl at freefriends.org (Karl Berry)
Date: Sat Feb  7 17:49:47 2004
Subject: [tex-live] let's make some decisions
In-Reply-To: <6.0.1.1.2.20040207154709.01fee808@localhost>
Message-ID: <200402071649.i17Gnbu23023@f7.net>

    a few days ago i ran into subversion

There are pros and cons to all the version control systems.
It's really a question of what the hosting site supports,
and what hosting site we choose (which are not independent questions).

    or take one of those open document licences

As I've said before: although I would like to do that, the problem with
*any* license where someone holds the copyright is that then that
someone has to get assignments for changes (at least to do a good job).
With public domain, that is not the case.

    (just wondering, what if some publisher prints the docu and then
    claims copyright so that we can no longer distribute it with tex live;

Although a publisher could print it, and could probably claim copyright
on what they printed, that wouldn't affect us.  The original public
domain document remains in the public domain.  Otherwise, the concept of
public domain would be meaningless.  For instance, someone could reprint
the Gutenberg Bible and claim copyright on it.  Or so it seems to me ...

    we haven't sorted out the bad-publishing-cd-boys issues yet

We haven't?  I am not aware of any pending licensing changes.  As far as
I know, any interesting changes to the TL license (such as the various
ones you proposed last summer) would render it non-free -- I talked
about it some with rms.  I hope we don't have to endlessly rehash it yet
again.
From karl at freefriends.org  Sat Feb  7 17:52:55 2004
From: karl at freefriends.org (Karl Berry)
Date: Sat Feb  7 17:53:04 2004
Subject: [tex-live] let's make some decisions
In-Reply-To: <6.0.1.1.2.20040207154709.01fee808@localhost>
Message-ID: <200402071652.i17GqtH23809@f7.net>

    so, one can even have the same formats for dvi/pdf and have the loading 
    done with \everyjob (if needed)

I don't understand.

Making proper behavior dependent on \everyjob seems quite dubious to
me.  It could conflict with any other existing uses of \everyjob, a
standard feature.

Nor would it be possible to load hypperef in \everyjob!  Hyperref
generally has to come last ...

I had the impression that all the necessary configuration files exist
already, outside of TeX, and it would be a matter of reading the right
config file, dependent on argv[0] and (ideally) command line options.
From karl at freefriends.org  Sat Feb  7 17:56:32 2004
From: karl at freefriends.org (Karl Berry)
Date: Sat Feb  7 17:56:41 2004
Subject: [tex-live] Proposal for distribution snapshots
In-Reply-To: <6.0.1.1.2.20040207153553.01bd8ec0@localhost>
Message-ID: <200402071656.i17GuWF24676@f7.net>

    The only long term archives that we have 

Not so.  Ulrik Vieth (principally) has made a large set of archives of
assorted packages and systems, available at ftp://tug.org/historic.
It seems reasonable to add the official TL releases there.


From Gerben.Wierda at rna.nl  Sat Feb  7 20:29:27 2004
From: Gerben.Wierda at rna.nl (Gerben Wierda)
Date: Sat Feb  7 20:29:38 2004
Subject: [tex-live] Proposal for distribution snapshots
In-Reply-To: <200402071656.i17GuWF24676@f7.net>
References: <200402071656.i17GuWF24676@f7.net>
Message-ID: <F1CD3272-59A3-11D8-8214-003065B3343E@rna.nl>

On Feb 7, 2004, at 17:56, Karl Berry wrote:

>     The only long term archives that we have
>
> Not so.  Ulrik Vieth (principally) has made a large set of archives of
> assorted packages and systems, available at ftp://tug.org/historic.
> It seems reasonable to add the official TL releases there.

We could see if some country's national archives (host country of the 
tug server maybe) is interested in regualr submissions of a CD/DVD for 
historical reasons. Isn't there an Institute of Computer History 
somewhere already?

G

From Gerben.Wierda at rna.nl  Sat Feb  7 20:26:27 2004
From: Gerben.Wierda at rna.nl (Gerben Wierda)
Date: Sat Feb  7 20:30:24 2004
Subject: [OS X TeX] Re: [tex-live] let's make some decisions (Modified by
	Gerben Wierda)
Message-ID: <0E95A74A-59A4-11D8-8214-003065B3343E@rna.nl>

On Feb 7, 2004, at 13:20, Sebastian Rahtz wrote:

> Who would disagree with the following decisions?
>
> 1.  When TeX Live 2004 is released, we freeze the Perforce repository 
> and migrate it to CVS on sarovar.
>       Or possibly Subversion, if Radhakrishnan is interested
>
> 2.  We declare the TeX Live documentation to be entirely public 
> domain. We all give up
>       whatever copyright we ever thought we held. Let it go.
>
> 3. We work towards a release in which all TeXish programs are linked 
> to pdfetex, with the exception of "tex" itself.  So if you type "tex", 
> you get Knuth's unadulterated original. if you type latex, etex, 
> pdftex, frlatex, whatever, you get pdfetex. The only difference is 
> that the pdf* ones have format file configurations in which output is 
> set to PDF.

4. We move to a split texmf tree (split between a foundation (Master) 
and the stuff which is created by Build (like pool files)). The 
Build-generated one is called texmf and the foundation is called 
texmf-texlive.

> who protests?
>
> Sedbastuan

Name change due to rules of some new sect you have joined?

G

From te at dbs.uni-hannover.de  Sat Feb  7 21:25:38 2004
From: te at dbs.uni-hannover.de (Thomas Esser)
Date: Sat Feb  7 21:25:48 2004
Subject: [tex-live] Solved: the preforce problem I had. Request
In-Reply-To: <6.0.1.1.2.20040207154413.01ff0898@localhost>
References: <AAEB0598-58F5-11D8-955C-000A95901A7E@rna.nl>
	<20040207072710.GB3619@dbs.uni-hannover.de>
	<993E696E-5943-11D8-972A-000A95901A7E@rna.nl>
	<2C9E7A47-5960-11D8-86B2-000A95901A7E@rna.nl>
	<6.0.1.1.2.20040207154413.01ff0898@localhost>
Message-ID: <20040207202538.GF3619@dbs.uni-hannover.de>

> eh .. i don't know the details but are you saying that texmf.cnf is 
> generated from the source tree? if so, whow ...

tex/kpathsea/texmf.in in the source tree contains most of the final
texmf.cnf file. Basically, the texmf.cnf is made from texmf.in by putting
the right installation prefixes (@texmf@, @vartexfonts@, @prefix@) into
some of the variables. The reason is that you can decide about these
variables at configure-time and automatically get a matching config file
installed into your texmf tree.

> who then has a mental picture of that (we should lock them up and protect
> them pretty well so that they will not get lost)

That's something that an average programmer will understand within
minutes, I think. So, no special protection is needed for people knowing
this :-)

Thomas
From beebe at math.utah.edu  Sat Feb  7 21:33:24 2004
From: beebe at math.utah.edu (Nelson H. F. Beebe)
Date: Sat Feb  7 21:33:36 2004
Subject: [tex-live] Proposal for distribution snapshots
In-Reply-To: Your message of Sat, 07 Feb 2004 15:47:12 +0000
Message-ID: <CMM.0.92.0.1076186003.beebe@psi.math.utah.edu>

Sebastian Rahtz writes in response for my proposal to daily snapshots
of the TeX-Live project:

>> sounds eminently reasonable. you mean starting now?

Sure, if someone with the suitable access to Perforce and the TUG site
can set up a cron job to do so.  I gave examples of three kinds of
compression: I'd go for the one offering maximal compression (bzip2)
if we anticipate storing daily snapshots for now on.

One useful economization, however, is to have the cron job record a
timestamp, and then check the archive for files newer than that
timestamp; if there is nothing new, there is no need to create a new
snapshot.  There will certainly be days when this happens.  To assure
remote users that the whole process hasn't ground to a halt, the cron
job should create a small file named LATEST-IS-yyyy-mm-dd every time
that it runs, so that the timestamp of that file reflects the last
cron run.

Hans Hagen correctly notes that the snapshots may some day be of
interest to historians.  In view of the ongoing SCO vs everyone
lawsuit and the court appearance here in Salt Lake City yesterday, it
could be even be legally useful:

	http://www.sltrib.com/2004/Feb/02072004/business/136590.asp

Yesterday's paper carried this story about SCO CEO Darl McBride:

	http://www.sltrib.com/2004/feb/02062004/business/136053.asp

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- Nelson H. F. Beebe                    Tel: +1 801 581 5254                  -
- University of Utah                    FAX: +1 801 581 4148                  -
- Department of Mathematics, 110 LCB    Internet e-mail: beebe@math.utah.edu  -
- 155 S 1400 E RM 233                       beebe@acm.org  beebe@computer.org -
- Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0090, USA    URL: http://www.math.utah.edu/~beebe  -
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk  Sat Feb  7 22:20:31 2004
From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz)
Date: Sat Feb  7 22:22:48 2004
Subject: [tex-live] Proposal for distribution snapshots
In-Reply-To: <CMM.0.92.0.1076186003.beebe@psi.math.utah.edu>
References: <CMM.0.92.0.1076186003.beebe@psi.math.utah.edu>
Message-ID: <4025569F.1080801@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>

I should say that I am not in favour of *storing* daily snapshots, 
merely making them. I'd expect to have
(eg) latest.tar.bz2 symnlinked to source-$DATE.tar.bz2 (which would not 
be recreated unless a file
changed).

I am afraid I personally cannot see much value in these ideas of 
computer archaeology! the yearly snapshots in texlive
are more than enough in my book; plus you have the Perforce database if 
anyone brings up lawyers.

Sebastian
From te at dbs.uni-hannover.de  Sat Feb  7 22:45:28 2004
From: te at dbs.uni-hannover.de (Thomas Esser)
Date: Sat Feb  7 22:45:39 2004
Subject: [tex-live] Re: Bizarre perforce situation
In-Reply-To: <4024C70F.9060206@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>
References: <AAEB0598-58F5-11D8-955C-000A95901A7E@rna.nl>
	<20040206232054.GD20387@herald.ox.ac.uk>
	<E178C90A-5943-11D8-972A-000A95901A7E@rna.nl>
	<4024C70F.9060206@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <20040207214528.GH3619@dbs.uni-hannover.de>

> The answer is, of course, to maintain the texmf/web2c directory in with 
> the source, not with the genuinely system-independent tree.

I like the idea to separate these things and it is easy enough to do by
adding one more texmf tree to the list in texmf.cnf.

Basically, I am with Gerben, i.e. to put the "make install"-generated
files into a texmf tree of their own and to take these files out of the
other texmf tree.

For several technical reasons, the "make install" tree has to be
Master/texmf and set up as $TEXMFMAIN. The large texmf tree could be
Master/texmf-dist and set up as $TEXMFDIST. teTeX could follow this
scheme.

The changed settings in texmf.in would be:

    % The tree containing the runtime files closely related to the specific
    % program version used:
    TEXMFMAIN = @texmf@

    % The main distribution tree:
    TEXMFDIST = @texmf@-dist

    ...

    TEXMF = {$HOMETEXMF,!!$TEXMFLOCAL,!!$TEXMFMAIN,!!TEXMFDIST}

Thomas
From te at dbs.uni-hannover.de  Sat Feb  7 23:11:46 2004
From: te at dbs.uni-hannover.de (Thomas Esser)
Date: Sat Feb  7 23:11:57 2004
Subject: [tex-live] Re: Bizarre perforce situation
In-Reply-To: <20040207214528.GH3619@dbs.uni-hannover.de>
References: <AAEB0598-58F5-11D8-955C-000A95901A7E@rna.nl>
	<20040206232054.GD20387@herald.ox.ac.uk>
	<E178C90A-5943-11D8-972A-000A95901A7E@rna.nl>
	<4024C70F.9060206@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>
	<20040207214528.GH3619@dbs.uni-hannover.de>
Message-ID: <20040207221146.GI3619@dbs.uni-hannover.de>

>     % The tree containing the runtime files closely related to the specific
>     % program version used:
>     TEXMFMAIN = @texmf@
> 
>     % The main distribution tree:
>     TEXMFDIST = @texmf@-dist
> 
>     ...
> 
>     TEXMF = {$HOMETEXMF,!!$TEXMFLOCAL,!!$TEXMFMAIN,!!TEXMFDIST}

A $ is missing before TEXMFDIST and one line needs to be added to
texk/kpathsea/Makefile.in:

--- old/Makefile.in   Sat Feb 15 14:55:19 2003
+++ ./Makefile.in       Sat Feb  7 22:54:57 2004
@@ -78,6 +78,7 @@
 # likely to have been mangled as well.
        echo '/^ *TEXMFMAIN[ =]/s%\$$TEXMF%$(texmf)%' >>$@
        echo '/^[% ]*TEXMFLOCAL[ =]/s%\$$TEXMF%$(texmf)%' >>$@
+       echo '/^[% ]*TEXMFDIST[ =]/s%\$$TEXMF%$(texmf)%' >>$@
        echo '/^[% ]*VARTEXMF[ =]/s%\$$TEXMF%$(texmf)%' >>$@
        echo '/^[% ]*TEXMFCNF[ =]/s%\$$TEXMF%$(texmf)%' >>$@
 # And fill in the last clause of TEXMFCNF with an absolute path.

I just have tried this setup with teTeX and I am *very* pleased with the
result. It *enourmously" eases updates to the distributed texmf trees
for our users. E.g. a regular teTeX user just can update his system
by replacing texmf-dist with a new tree (and eventually rebuilding
all formats).

This was *far* more difficult before. And, if you call texconfig,
you get copies of your config files from texmf-dist to texmf, so that
the distributed files remain unchanged and the modification are stored
separate from the distributed files.

I love it!

Thomas
From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk  Sat Feb  7 23:15:08 2004
From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz)
Date: Sat Feb  7 23:17:25 2004
Subject: [tex-live] Re: Bizarre perforce situation
In-Reply-To: <20040207221146.GI3619@dbs.uni-hannover.de>
References: <AAEB0598-58F5-11D8-955C-000A95901A7E@rna.nl>	<20040206232054.GD20387@herald.ox.ac.uk>	<E178C90A-5943-11D8-972A-000A95901A7E@rna.nl>	<4024C70F.9060206@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>	<20040207214528.GH3619@dbs.uni-hannover.de>
	<20040207221146.GI3619@dbs.uni-hannover.de>
Message-ID: <4025636C.7010507@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>

I am making these changes to the TeXlive setup now

looks good!

Sebastian
From karl at freefriends.org  Sat Feb  7 23:25:26 2004
From: karl at freefriends.org (Karl Berry)
Date: Sat Feb  7 23:25:35 2004
Subject: [tex-live] Proposal for distribution snapshots
In-Reply-To: <CMM.0.92.0.1076186003.beebe@psi.math.utah.edu>
Message-ID: <200402072225.i17MPQT02687@f7.net>

    Sure, if someone with the suitable access to Perforce and the TUG site
    can set up a cron job to do so.  

I just ran a test.  Creating a usable snapshot of TL took about 30
minutes elapsed time and is about 477mb (as a .tbz). 
(This is Master + Build - Master/bin)

I'm not sure there's any point in doing this when so few snapshots could
be stored.

As for access to the current files, surely there's no point in doing
that as a .tbz.  By far the most efficient mechanism would be to make
/home/tlprod available by rsync (as Hans has suggested in the past), so
that only the changed files would need to be grabbed.

This is the sort of thing a hosting site would give us for free.
From ms at artcom-gmbh.de  Sun Feb  8 02:14:58 2004
From: ms at artcom-gmbh.de (Martin =?iso-8859-1?Q?Schr=F6der?=)
Date: Sun Feb  8 09:30:30 2004
Subject: [tex-live] Proposal for distribution snapshots
In-Reply-To: <4025569F.1080801@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>
References: <CMM.0.92.0.1076186003.beebe@psi.math.utah.edu>
	<4025569F.1080801@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <20040208011457.GF20852@lucien.kn-bremen.de>

On 2004-02-07 21:20:31 +0000, Sebastian Rahtz wrote:
> are more than enough in my book; plus you have the Perforce database if 
> anyone brings up lawyers.

Is the p4 db format publically documented so that historians
don't need the p4 software?

Best regards
    Martin
-- 
               Martin Schr?der, ms@artcom-gmbh.de
     ArtCom GmbH, Lise-Meitner-Str 5, 28359 Bremen, Germany
          Voice +49 421 20419-44 / Fax +49 421 20419-10
                    http://www.artcom-gmbh.de
From Gerben.Wierda at rna.nl  Sun Feb  8 10:42:54 2004
From: Gerben.Wierda at rna.nl (Gerben Wierda)
Date: Sun Feb  8 10:43:04 2004
Subject: [tex-live] Re: Bizarre perforce situation
In-Reply-To: <20040207214528.GH3619@dbs.uni-hannover.de>
References: <AAEB0598-58F5-11D8-955C-000A95901A7E@rna.nl>
	<20040206232054.GD20387@herald.ox.ac.uk>
	<E178C90A-5943-11D8-972A-000A95901A7E@rna.nl>
	<4024C70F.9060206@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>
	<20040207214528.GH3619@dbs.uni-hannover.de>
Message-ID: <2B4AECDD-5A1B-11D8-8214-003065B3343E@rna.nl>

On Feb 7, 2004, at 22:45, Thomas Esser wrote:

>     TEXMF = {$HOMETEXMF,!!$TEXMFLOCAL,!!$TEXMFMAIN,!!TEXMFDIST}

This means that you must be a 100% sure that there is nothing in MAIN 
that can/should be overriden by something in DIST.

Personally, I do DIST before MAIN and that means that DIST (as well as 
LOCAL and HOME) are responsible for any overriding of stuff in MAIN. 
This has worked well for me in the past.

It is a trade-off but the HOME,LOCAL,DIST,MAIN has worked well for me.

G

From te at dbs.uni-hannover.de  Sun Feb  8 12:04:16 2004
From: te at dbs.uni-hannover.de (Thomas Esser)
Date: Sun Feb  8 12:04:27 2004
Subject: [tex-live] Re: Bizarre perforce situation
In-Reply-To: <2B4AECDD-5A1B-11D8-8214-003065B3343E@rna.nl>
References: <AAEB0598-58F5-11D8-955C-000A95901A7E@rna.nl>
	<20040206232054.GD20387@herald.ox.ac.uk>
	<E178C90A-5943-11D8-972A-000A95901A7E@rna.nl>
	<4024C70F.9060206@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>
	<20040207214528.GH3619@dbs.uni-hannover.de>
	<2B4AECDD-5A1B-11D8-8214-003065B3343E@rna.nl>
Message-ID: <20040208110416.GA10173@dbs.uni-hannover.de>

Hi Gerben,

> >    TEXMF = {$HOMETEXMF,!!$TEXMFLOCAL,!!$TEXMFMAIN,!!TEXMFDIST}
> 
> This means that you must be a 100% sure that there is nothing in MAIN 
> that can/should be overriden by something in DIST.

I really want to have it *this* way. The specific stuff must override
the more general stuff. If people install new binaries from some source,
very specific stuff ends up in TEXMFMAIN.

> Personally, I do DIST before MAIN and that means that DIST (as well as 
> LOCAL and HOME) are responsible for any overriding of stuff in MAIN. 
> This has worked well for me in the past.
> 
> It is a trade-off but the HOME,LOCAL,DIST,MAIN has worked well for me.

The difference is not only the order inside the TEXMF definition, but
also that you set
  VARTEXMF = $TEXMFLOCAL

I don't and thus, formats and config files maintained by texconfig end
up in TEXMFMAIN in my setup (rather than in TEXMFLOCAL). In other words,
your search order only works because of the VARTEXMF "trick".

I really like it the way that it is set up now. Please, try it out.
I don't think that you will have problems with the new setup. If you
really run into trouble, just let me know and I'll try to find a way
out...

Thomas
From pragma at wxs.nl  Sat Feb  7 17:57:05 2004
From: pragma at wxs.nl (Hans Hagen)
Date: Sun Feb  8 12:48:24 2004
Subject: [tex-live] texmf-extra
Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20040207175411.01cf5fd8@localhost>

Hi,

In the process of adapting to the new tree structure I'm trying to sort out 
how to deal best with the move of utopia to texmf-extra.

Since I expect more things to end up in this 
experimental/tricky/copyrightunsuitableforsomepeople tree, i wonder if it 
makes sense to
add a varianble TEXMFEXTRA so that, when one copies thsi path to his/her 
machine, things just work; something

   TEXMF={TEXMFMAIN,TEXMFEXTRA,TEXMFLOCAL,...}

or whatever suits the current state of tds/cnf

(of course i'd like to see TEXMFFONTS for commercial fonts but i suppose 
that's off limit)

Hans


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE/POD/CTS
                       Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
  tel: +31 (0)38 477 53 69 | fax: +31 (0)38 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                        information: http://www.pragma-ade.com/roadmap.pdf
                     documentation: http://www.pragma-ade.com/showcase.pdf
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

From pragma at wxs.nl  Sun Feb  8 12:37:17 2004
From: pragma at wxs.nl (Hans Hagen)
Date: Sun Feb  8 12:48:39 2004
Subject: [tex-live] Solved: the preforce problem I had. Request
In-Reply-To: <20040207202538.GF3619@dbs.uni-hannover.de>
References: <AAEB0598-58F5-11D8-955C-000A95901A7E@rna.nl>
	<20040207072710.GB3619@dbs.uni-hannover.de>
	<993E696E-5943-11D8-972A-000A95901A7E@rna.nl>
	<2C9E7A47-5960-11D8-86B2-000A95901A7E@rna.nl>
	<6.0.1.1.2.20040207154413.01ff0898@localhost>
	<20040207202538.GF3619@dbs.uni-hannover.de>
Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20040208123518.033e45d0@localhost>

At 21:25 07/02/2004, Thomas Esser wrote:

> > who then has a mental picture of that (we should lock them up and protect
> > them pretty well so that they will not get lost)
>
>That's something that an average programmer will understand within
>minutes, I think. So, no special protection is needed for people knowing
>this :-)

hm, i'm sure that the tex source tree can drive even a more than average 
programmer a little crazy, as i once experienced when i asked someone to 
compile eomega on windows (all those change files ..), but it's good to 
hear that the source tree is future safe

Hans   

From pragma at wxs.nl  Sun Feb  8 12:51:00 2004
From: pragma at wxs.nl (Hans Hagen)
Date: Sun Feb  8 13:11:01 2004
Subject: [tex-live] pdftex problem with current p4 depot texconfig
In-Reply-To: <0F4B3A3C-59A3-11D8-8214-003065B3343E@rna.nl>
References: <20040206144056.GA4732@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at>
	<6.0.1.1.2.20040206160405.01ccb088@server-1>
	<20040206151850.GB4732@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at>
	<20040206153045.GC4732@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at>
	<20040206192640.GE16326@dbs.uni-hannover.de>
	<6.0.1.1.2.20040207014305.01d1bf30@localhost>
	<20040207071507.GA3619@dbs.uni-hannover.de>
	<6.0.1.1.2.20040207160432.02bc87c0@localhost>
	<0F4B3A3C-59A3-11D8-8214-003065B3343E@rna.nl>
Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20040208124928.01e05128@localhost>

At 20:23 07/02/2004, you wrote:
>On Feb 7, 2004, at 16:11, Hans Hagen wrote:
>
>>talking of suffixes, is it possible to add support for fast html and pdf 
>>searching (handy for documentation) as well as pl,rb,py (handy for 
>>utilities) and maybe even xml (for sources) [i mean the suffixes that are 
>>also reported with --help)
>>
>>>Config files are a problem, because many programs have them and there
>>>is no clear namespace by extension. There are even tex input files
>>>named .cfg, so we cannot "register" the .cfg extension to any of
>>>these programs (like pdftex which has pdftex.cfg).
>>
>>a pitty, since we no longer have msdos around, is there a solution in 
>>whatever.pdftex.cfg, e.e. double suffixes?
>
>We have .cf, .cfg, etc Why, if we are cleaning up, don't we use the 
>.config extension for any config file and contact all the people who use 
>the other extensions with a request for change and unification?

as well as move the cfg into the texmf.cfg if possible (for instance for 
programs in the tex suite that use kpse)

Hans

From pragma at wxs.nl  Sun Feb  8 13:00:28 2004
From: pragma at wxs.nl (Hans Hagen)
Date: Sun Feb  8 13:11:05 2004
Subject: [tex-live] let's make some decisions
In-Reply-To: <200402071652.i17GqtH23809@f7.net>
References: <6.0.1.1.2.20040207154709.01fee808@localhost>
	<200402071652.i17GqtH23809@f7.net>
Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20040208125739.01cd4ec0@localhost>

At 17:52 07/02/2004, Karl Berry wrote:

>     so, one can even have the same formats for dvi/pdf and have the loading
>     done with \everyjob (if needed)
>
>I don't understand.
>
>Making proper behavior dependent on \everyjob seems quite dubious to
>me.  It could conflict with any other existing uses of \everyjob, a
>standard feature.

hm, most users of everyjob probably append things to this register instead 
of replacing, otherwise they mess up things anyway; and since the main 
macro package file has control ...

(but maybe i think to much context -)

>Nor would it be possible to load hypperef in \everyjob!  Hyperref
>generally has to come last ...

since we have this pdftex engine, we can make \pdfeveryjob which expancs 
after \everyjob -)

Hans



-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE/POD/CTS
                       Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
  tel: +31 (0)38 477 53 69 | fax: +31 (0)38 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                        information: http://www.pragma-ade.com/roadmap.pdf
                     documentation: http://www.pragma-ade.com/showcase.pdf
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

From pragma at wxs.nl  Sun Feb  8 13:06:48 2004
From: pragma at wxs.nl (Hans Hagen)
Date: Sun Feb  8 13:11:08 2004
Subject: [tex-live] let's make some decisions
In-Reply-To: <200402071649.i17Gnbu23023@f7.net>
References: <6.0.1.1.2.20040207154709.01fee808@localhost>
	<200402071649.i17Gnbu23023@f7.net>
Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20040208130042.01e67328@localhost>

At 17:49 07/02/2004, you wrote:

>     we haven't sorted out the bad-publishing-cd-boys issues yet
>
>We haven't?  I am not aware of any pending licensing changes.  As far as
>I know, any interesting changes to the TL license (such as the various
>ones you proposed last summer) would render it non-free -- I talked
>about it some with rms.  I hope we don't have to endlessly rehash it yet
>again.

definitely not since i'm getting quite allergic for licence issues -)

i was just wondering if there is now some steps to follow/guidelines for 
publishers who want to include cd's to their books (apart from an 
invitation to donate to the project)

Hans



                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE/POD/CTS
                       Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
  tel: +31 (0)38 477 53 69 | fax: +31 (0)38 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                        information: http://www.pragma-ade.com/roadmap.pdf
                     documentation: http://www.pragma-ade.com/showcase.pdf
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

From te at dbs.uni-hannover.de  Sun Feb  8 13:50:01 2004
From: te at dbs.uni-hannover.de (Thomas Esser)
Date: Sun Feb  8 13:50:10 2004
Subject: [tex-live] texmf-extra
In-Reply-To: <6.0.1.1.2.20040207175411.01cf5fd8@localhost>
References: <6.0.1.1.2.20040207175411.01cf5fd8@localhost>
Message-ID: <20040208125001.GB24177@dbs.uni-hannover.de>

> In the process of adapting to the new tree structure I'm trying to sort out 
> how to deal best with the move of utopia to texmf-extra.

You can use texmf-local for "local" additions. That's already in the
search path.

> or whatever suits the current state of tds/cnf

tds does not deal with questions about accessing multiple texmf trees. It
deals which the internal organization of each individual texmf tree.

> (of course i'd like to see TEXMFFONTS for commercial fonts but i suppose 
> that's off limit)

I don't see a need for extensions. You can put everything you want into
a local texmmf tree.

Thomas
From te at dbs.uni-hannover.de  Sun Feb  8 14:00:31 2004
From: te at dbs.uni-hannover.de (Thomas Esser)
Date: Sun Feb  8 14:00:41 2004
Subject: [tex-live] pdftex problem with current p4 depot texconfig
In-Reply-To: <6.0.1.1.2.20040208124928.01e05128@localhost>
References: <20040206144056.GA4732@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at>
	<6.0.1.1.2.20040206160405.01ccb088@server-1>
	<20040206151850.GB4732@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at>
	<20040206153045.GC4732@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at>
	<20040206192640.GE16326@dbs.uni-hannover.de>
	<6.0.1.1.2.20040207014305.01d1bf30@localhost>
	<20040207071507.GA3619@dbs.uni-hannover.de>
	<6.0.1.1.2.20040207160432.02bc87c0@localhost>
	<0F4B3A3C-59A3-11D8-8214-003065B3343E@rna.nl>
	<6.0.1.1.2.20040208124928.01e05128@localhost>
Message-ID: <20040208130031.GC24177@dbs.uni-hannover.de>

> >We have .cf, .cfg, etc Why, if we are cleaning up, don't we use the 
> >.config extension for any config file and contact all the people who use 
> >the other extensions with a request for change and unification?

guessing the search path by the extension will not become easier if all
programs use ".config" for their config files. I mean, we have to search
graphics.cfg along $TEXINPUTS and pdftex.cfg along $PDFTEXCONFIG.

There is little we can gain by putting up a requirement for a unique
extension for "config files". On the other hand, such a move has the
potential of *big trouble* because it is a big change.

> as well as move the cfg into the texmf.cfg if possible (for instance for 
> programs in the tex suite that use kpse)

That should be discussed with Olaf. I doubt that he'd like that.

Thomas
From aa056 at chebucto.ns.ca  Sun Feb  8 14:25:40 2004
From: aa056 at chebucto.ns.ca (George N. White III)
Date: Sun Feb  8 14:26:02 2004
Subject: [tex-live] let's make some decisions
In-Reply-To: <200402071649.i17Gnbu23023@f7.net>
References: <200402071649.i17Gnbu23023@f7.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.4.58.0402080902230.337865@montigo.bio.dfo.ca>

On Sat, 7 Feb 2004, Karl Berry wrote:

>     or take one of those open document licences
>
> As I've said before: although I would like to do that, the problem with
> *any* license where someone holds the copyright is that then that
> someone has to get assignments for changes (at least to do a good job).
> With public domain, that is not the case.

I think it would be wise to get expert advice on this.

Particularly with all the efforts to prolong various protections on
intellectual property here needs to be some mechanism to release copyright
on "abandoned" texts -- thinking mainly of those owned by defunct
companies where it is impossible to find anyone who can grant permission
to use the material.

>     (just wondering, what if some publisher prints the docu and then
>     claims copyright so that we can no longer distribute it with tex live;
>
> Although a publisher could print it, and could probably claim copyright
> on what they printed, that wouldn't affect us.  The original public
> domain document remains in the public domain.  Otherwise, the concept of
> public domain would be meaningless.  For instance, someone could reprint
> the Gutenberg Bible and claim copyright on it.  Or so it seems to me ...

The real threat isn't that a bad guy would loose in court but that they
can make you miserable with unfounded claims.  Suppose in a few years
Win32 users all switch some new OS derived from multics with wonderful
security.  A big bad company ports TL2010 and claims copywrite on the
docs, patents on the methods, and invokes the DMCA against anyone who
attempts a port. It would be a practical impossibility to have an open
source port, not because the bad guy is on solid legal ground, but because
the cost of going to court is prohibitive.

Public domain is fine for things that have a high profile and deep-pocket
defenders, e.g., Gutenberg bible, but copyright can clarify the status of
a document and make it much harder for the bad guys to find a laywer
willing to push their claim.

--
George N. White III  <aa056@chebucto.ns.ca>
  Head of St. Margarets Bay, Nova Scotia, Canada
From karl at freefriends.org  Sun Feb  8 15:23:52 2004
From: karl at freefriends.org (Karl Berry)
Date: Sun Feb  8 15:24:02 2004
Subject: [tex-live] let's make some decisions
In-Reply-To: <6.0.1.1.2.20040208130042.01e67328@localhost>
Message-ID: <200402081423.i18ENq530753@f7.net>

    i was just wondering if there is now some steps to follow/guidelines
    for publishers who want to include cd's to their books

Yes, I wrote a section about this during the brouhaha last year, in
the top-level LICENSE.TL.

Both of the publishers (German and American arms of Addison-Wesley) last
year were very cooperative.

    (apart from an invitation to donate to the project)

Good point.  I've added that to LICENSE.TL now.

Thanks.
From olaf at infovore.xs4all.nl  Sun Feb  8 18:43:24 2004
From: olaf at infovore.xs4all.nl (Olaf Weber)
Date: Sun Feb  8 19:34:02 2004
Subject: [tex-live] Solved: the preforce problem I had. Request
In-Reply-To: <20040207202538.GF3619@dbs.uni-hannover.de> (Thomas Esser's
	message of "Sat, 7 Feb 2004 21:25:38 +0100")
References: <AAEB0598-58F5-11D8-955C-000A95901A7E@rna.nl>
	<20040207072710.GB3619@dbs.uni-hannover.de>
	<993E696E-5943-11D8-972A-000A95901A7E@rna.nl>
	<2C9E7A47-5960-11D8-86B2-000A95901A7E@rna.nl>
	<6.0.1.1.2.20040207154413.01ff0898@localhost>
	<20040207202538.GF3619@dbs.uni-hannover.de>
Message-ID: <873c9l1n7n.fsf@infovore.xs4all.nl>

Thomas Esser writes:

>> eh .. i don't know the details but are you saying that texmf.cnf is 
>> generated from the source tree? if so, whow ...

> tex/kpathsea/texmf.in in the source tree contains most of the final
> texmf.cnf file. Basically, the texmf.cnf is made from texmf.in by putting
> the right installation prefixes (@texmf@, @vartexfonts@, @prefix@) into
> some of the variables. The reason is that you can decide about these
> variables at configure-time and automatically get a matching config file
> installed into your texmf tree.

Actually, I'd like to be able to have the texmf.cnf distributed with
the texmf tree, instead of carrying the texmf.in in the kpathsea tree.

-- 
Olaf Weber

               (This space left blank for technical reasons.)

From olaf at infovore.xs4all.nl  Sun Feb  8 18:41:50 2004
From: olaf at infovore.xs4all.nl (Olaf Weber)
Date: Sun Feb  8 19:34:12 2004
Subject: [tex-live] Re: Bizarre perforce situation
In-Reply-To: <20040207221146.GI3619@dbs.uni-hannover.de> (Thomas Esser's
	message of "Sat, 7 Feb 2004 23:11:46 +0100")
References: <AAEB0598-58F5-11D8-955C-000A95901A7E@rna.nl>
	<20040206232054.GD20387@herald.ox.ac.uk>
	<E178C90A-5943-11D8-972A-000A95901A7E@rna.nl>
	<4024C70F.9060206@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>
	<20040207214528.GH3619@dbs.uni-hannover.de>
	<20040207221146.GI3619@dbs.uni-hannover.de>
Message-ID: <877jyx1na9.fsf@infovore.xs4all.nl>

Thomas Esser writes:

>> % The tree containing the runtime files closely related to the specific
>> % program version used:
>> TEXMFMAIN = @texmf@
>> 
>> % The main distribution tree:
>> TEXMFDIST = @texmf@-dist
>> 
>> ...
>> 
>> TEXMF = {$HOMETEXMF,!!$TEXMFLOCAL,!!$TEXMFMAIN,!!TEXMFDIST}

> A $ is missing before TEXMFDIST and one line needs to be added to
> texk/kpathsea/Makefile.in:

> --- old/Makefile.in   Sat Feb 15 14:55:19 2003
> +++ ./Makefile.in       Sat Feb  7 22:54:57 2004
> @@ -78,6 +78,7 @@
>  # likely to have been mangled as well.
>         echo '/^ *TEXMFMAIN[ =]/s%\$$TEXMF%$(texmf)%' >>$@
>         echo '/^[% ]*TEXMFLOCAL[ =]/s%\$$TEXMF%$(texmf)%' >>$@
> +       echo '/^[% ]*TEXMFDIST[ =]/s%\$$TEXMF%$(texmf)%' >>$@
>         echo '/^[% ]*VARTEXMF[ =]/s%\$$TEXMF%$(texmf)%' >>$@
>         echo '/^[% ]*TEXMFCNF[ =]/s%\$$TEXMF%$(texmf)%' >>$@
>  # And fill in the last clause of TEXMFCNF with an absolute path.

Something else is missing as well: TEXMFDIST must be added to
SYSTEXMF.  Arguably, using VARTEXMF instead of TEXMFMAIN to store
formats is better.  Arguably, it is not, if you consider VARTEXMF to
be volatile in the sense of "delete-when-convenient".

Index: texmf.in
===================================================================
RCS file: /usr/local/cvsroot/texk/texk/kpathsea/texmf.in,v
retrieving revision 1.56
diff -u -d -r1.56 texmf.in
--- texmf.in    4 Jan 2004 17:00:45 -0000       1.56
+++ texmf.in    8 Feb 2004 17:34:51 -0000
@@ -74,10 +74,10 @@
 %   - list $VARTEXMF in the TEXMF definition;
 %   - make sure that $VARTEXMF precedes $TEXMFMAIN in the TEXMF definition.
 % TEXMF = $TEXMFMAIN
-TEXMF = {$HOMETEXMF,!!$TEXMFLOCAL,!!$TEXMFMAIN}
+TEXMF = {$HOMETEXMF,!!$TEXMFLOCAL,!!$TEXMFMAIN,!!$TEXMFDIST}

 % The system trees.  These are the trees that are shared by all the users.
-SYSTEXMF = $TEXMFLOCAL:$TEXMFMAIN
+SYSTEXMF = $TEXMFLOCAL;$TEXMFMAIN;$TEXMFDIST

 % Where generated fonts may be written.  This tree is used when the sources
 % were found in a system tree and either that tree wasn't writable, or the
@@ -100,7 +100,7 @@
 % or mktexlsr will generate an ls-R file for $HOME when called, which is
 % rarely desirable.  If you do this you'll want to define SYSTEXMF like
 % this:
-%   SYSTEXMF = $TEXMFLOCAL;$TEXMFMAIN
+%   SYSTEXMF = $TEXMFLOCAL;$TEXMFMAIN;$TEXMFDIST
 % so that fonts from a user's tree won't escape into the global trees.
 %
 % On some systems, there will be a system tree which contains all the font

-- 
Olaf Weber

               (This space left blank for technical reasons.)

From te at dbs.uni-hannover.de  Sun Feb  8 19:44:19 2004
From: te at dbs.uni-hannover.de (Thomas Esser)
Date: Sun Feb  8 19:44:37 2004
Subject: [tex-live] Re: Bizarre perforce situation
In-Reply-To: <877jyx1na9.fsf@infovore.xs4all.nl>
References: <AAEB0598-58F5-11D8-955C-000A95901A7E@rna.nl>
	<20040206232054.GD20387@herald.ox.ac.uk>
	<E178C90A-5943-11D8-972A-000A95901A7E@rna.nl>
	<4024C70F.9060206@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>
	<20040207214528.GH3619@dbs.uni-hannover.de>
	<20040207221146.GI3619@dbs.uni-hannover.de>
	<877jyx1na9.fsf@infovore.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <20040208184419.GA28104@dbs.uni-hannover.de>

> Something else is missing as well: TEXMFDIST must be added to
> SYSTEXMF.

Yup, thanks. I'll use this for teTeX. TeX Live (for some reasons unknown
to me) has SYSTEXMF = $TEXMF in texmf.in.

> Arguably, using VARTEXMF instead of TEXMFMAIN to store
> formats is better.  Arguably, it is not, if you consider VARTEXMF to
> be volatile in the sense of "delete-when-convenient".

Setting VARTEXMF is optional and it is unset in the default configuration.
If it is set, formats will be stored there.

Thomas
From Gerben.Wierda at rna.nl  Sun Feb  8 19:49:34 2004
From: Gerben.Wierda at rna.nl (Gerben Wierda)
Date: Sun Feb  8 19:49:45 2004
Subject: [tex-live] pdftex problem with current p4 depot texconfig
In-Reply-To: <20040208130031.GC24177@dbs.uni-hannover.de>
References: <20040206144056.GA4732@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at>
	<6.0.1.1.2.20040206160405.01ccb088@server-1>
	<20040206151850.GB4732@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at>
	<20040206153045.GC4732@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at>
	<20040206192640.GE16326@dbs.uni-hannover.de>
	<6.0.1.1.2.20040207014305.01d1bf30@localhost>
	<20040207071507.GA3619@dbs.uni-hannover.de>
	<6.0.1.1.2.20040207160432.02bc87c0@localhost>
	<0F4B3A3C-59A3-11D8-8214-003065B3343E@rna.nl>
	<6.0.1.1.2.20040208124928.01e05128@localhost>
	<20040208130031.GC24177@dbs.uni-hannover.de>
Message-ID: <89CEF3B2-5A67-11D8-8214-003065B3343E@rna.nl>

What about a config file for kpse itself instead of only built-in 
possibilities?

G

On Feb 8, 2004, at 14:00, Thomas Esser wrote:

>>> We have .cf, .cfg, etc Why, if we are cleaning up, don't we use the
>>> .config extension for any config file and contact all the people who 
>>> use
>>> the other extensions with a request for change and unification?
>
> guessing the search path by the extension will not become easier if all
> programs use ".config" for their config files. I mean, we have to 
> search
> graphics.cfg along $TEXINPUTS and pdftex.cfg along $PDFTEXCONFIG.
>
> There is little we can gain by putting up a requirement for a unique
> extension for "config files". On the other hand, such a move has the
> potential of *big trouble* because it is a big change.
>
>> as well as move the cfg into the texmf.cfg if possible (for instance 
>> for
>> programs in the tex suite that use kpse)
>
> That should be discussed with Olaf. I doubt that he'd like that.
>
> Thomas
> _______________________________________________
> TeX Live mailing list
> http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/tex-live
>

From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk  Sun Feb  8 21:11:47 2004
From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz)
Date: Sun Feb  8 21:14:05 2004
Subject: [tex-live] Proposal for distribution snapshots
In-Reply-To: <20040208011457.GF20852@lucien.kn-bremen.de>
References: <CMM.0.92.0.1076186003.beebe@psi.math.utah.edu>	<4025569F.1080801@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>
	<20040208011457.GF20852@lucien.kn-bremen.de>
Message-ID: <40269803.8090306@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>

Martin Schr?der wrote:

>On 2004-02-07 21:20:31 +0000, Sebastian Rahtz wrote:
>  
>
>>are more than enough in my book; plus you have the Perforce database if 
>>anyone brings up lawyers.
>>    
>>
>
>Is the p4 db format publically documented so that historians
>don't need the p4 software?
>  
>

no. but they'll work it out if they need to. don;t make it *too* easy 
for them

Sebastian
From Gerben.Wierda at rna.nl  Sun Feb  8 21:49:03 2004
From: Gerben.Wierda at rna.nl (Gerben Wierda)
Date: Sun Feb  8 21:49:14 2004
Subject: [tex-live] Solved: the preforce problem I had. Request
In-Reply-To: <873c9l1n7n.fsf@infovore.xs4all.nl>
References: <AAEB0598-58F5-11D8-955C-000A95901A7E@rna.nl>
	<20040207072710.GB3619@dbs.uni-hannover.de>
	<993E696E-5943-11D8-972A-000A95901A7E@rna.nl>
	<2C9E7A47-5960-11D8-86B2-000A95901A7E@rna.nl>
	<6.0.1.1.2.20040207154413.01ff0898@localhost>
	<20040207202538.GF3619@dbs.uni-hannover.de>
	<873c9l1n7n.fsf@infovore.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <3A978CEA-5A78-11D8-8214-003065B3343E@rna.nl>

On Feb 8, 2004, at 18:43, Olaf Weber wrote:

> Actually, I'd like to be able to have the texmf.cnf distributed with
> the texmf tree, instead of carrying the texmf.in in the kpathsea tree.

If stuff like kpathsea changes (like now), or if stuff like memory 
requirements would change it has consequences for texmf.cnf. But if the 
TDS changes, it also has consequences for texmf.cnf.

This raises the important question: what exactly is texmf.cnf for? You 
need to define that pretty clearly before you make a decision if it 
should be part of Build or Master. At least one part (the organisation 
of multiple trees) lies outside Master. But currently, the actual 
settings in texmf.cnf also depend on the actual layout inside the texmf 
trees (TDS).

Probably, technically this would lead to a split: one file describing 
stuff like TEXMF, TEXMFMAIN etc, or the *outside* of the tree (and that 
alone makes shipping it as part of one tree a bit of a conflict) and 
one file describing the *inside* of the tree (sub(sub)directories, like 
tex, fonts, enc, map). But should it for instance be possible that 
different trees have different directory structures? Is that a 
felxibility worth paying  the hefty implementation price for? I guess 
not. In that case, the trees should conform on the inside to the 
standard structure (which is now undergoing a change) and thus the only 
part flexible would be the outside of the trees and that would point to 
a choice as part of the binaries.

Given that this is the time we are doing it and a changeover is costly 
for users, it should better be done good.

G

From Gerben.Wierda at rna.nl  Sun Feb  8 21:55:19 2004
From: Gerben.Wierda at rna.nl (Gerben Wierda)
Date: Sun Feb  8 21:55:30 2004
Subject: [tex-live] Re: Bizarre perforce situation
In-Reply-To: <877jyx1na9.fsf@infovore.xs4all.nl>
References: <AAEB0598-58F5-11D8-955C-000A95901A7E@rna.nl>
	<20040206232054.GD20387@herald.ox.ac.uk>
	<E178C90A-5943-11D8-972A-000A95901A7E@rna.nl>
	<4024C70F.9060206@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>
	<20040207214528.GH3619@dbs.uni-hannover.de>
	<20040207221146.GI3619@dbs.uni-hannover.de>
	<877jyx1na9.fsf@infovore.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <1A887BB5-5A79-11D8-8214-003065B3343E@rna.nl>

On Feb 8, 2004, at 18:41, Olaf Weber wrote:

> Something else is missing as well: TEXMFDIST must be added to
> SYSTEXMF.  Arguably, using VARTEXMF instead of TEXMFMAIN to store
> formats is better.  Arguably, it is not, if you consider VARTEXMF to
> be volatile in the sense of "delete-when-convenient".

If VARTEXMF is delete-when-convenient, then maybe TEXMFLOCAL is the 
preferred place for formats and stuff 
(do-not-delete-or-risk-ruining-your-working-TeX). I currently have set 
VARTEXMF to TEXMFLOCAL but generated fonts and stuff still go to 
/var/tmp/texfonts because that depends on VARTEXFONTS. So, as i have 
set it up, the distributed trees (TEXMFMAIN, TEXMFDIST) are 'read-only' 
(which I like from a distribution and maintenance support point of 
view), TEXMFLOCAL is read-write and contains formats and added stuff 
(do not delete) and VARTEXFONTS contains generated and easily to 
recreate stuff.

G

From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk  Sun Feb  8 22:11:16 2004
From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz)
Date: Sun Feb  8 22:13:34 2004
Subject: [tex-live] let's make some decisions
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SGI.4.58.0402080902230.337865@montigo.bio.dfo.ca>
References: <200402071649.i17Gnbu23023@f7.net>
	<Pine.SGI.4.58.0402080902230.337865@montigo.bio.dfo.ca>
Message-ID: <4026A5F4.1020307@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>

George N. White III wrote:

>A big bad company ports TL2010 and claims copywrite on the
>docs, patents on the methods, and invokes the DMCA against anyone who
>attempts a port. It would be a practical impossibility to have an open
>source port, not because the bad guy is on solid legal ground, but because
>the cost of going to court is prohibitive.
>
>  
>
Personally, I'd accept the risk, instead of paying good money to shyster 
lawyers now.  I don't have much time for
the sleazy legal system which feeds on society like this. If someone in 
2010 tells me to desist, well OK maybe I'll just shrug
and go off to play some other game. Ultimately, its not a matter of life 
and death if Microsoft destroys TeX.....

Sebastian
From te at dbs.uni-hannover.de  Sun Feb  8 22:34:27 2004
From: te at dbs.uni-hannover.de (Thomas Esser)
Date: Sun Feb  8 22:37:52 2004
Subject: [tex-live] Re: Bizarre perforce situation
In-Reply-To: <1A887BB5-5A79-11D8-8214-003065B3343E@rna.nl>
References: <AAEB0598-58F5-11D8-955C-000A95901A7E@rna.nl>
	<20040206232054.GD20387@herald.ox.ac.uk>
	<E178C90A-5943-11D8-972A-000A95901A7E@rna.nl>
	<4024C70F.9060206@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>
	<20040207214528.GH3619@dbs.uni-hannover.de>
	<20040207221146.GI3619@dbs.uni-hannover.de>
	<877jyx1na9.fsf@infovore.xs4all.nl>
	<1A887BB5-5A79-11D8-8214-003065B3343E@rna.nl>
Message-ID: <20040208213427.GA30009@dbs.uni-hannover.de>

> If VARTEXMF is delete-when-convenient, then maybe TEXMFLOCAL is the 

For me, VARTEXMF was an option for storing "variable" data, which
are the formats, fonts (if VARTEXFONTS is not set) and config files
which can be set up using texconfig.  I have never considred it as
delete-when-convenient.

teTeX users will at least loose their modifications they have done to
the configuration when deleting the VARTEXMF tree.

Thomas
From Gerben.Wierda at rna.nl  Sun Feb  8 22:46:38 2004
From: Gerben.Wierda at rna.nl (Gerben Wierda)
Date: Sun Feb  8 22:46:49 2004
Subject: [tex-live] Re: Bizarre perforce situation
In-Reply-To: <20040208213427.GA30009@dbs.uni-hannover.de>
References: <AAEB0598-58F5-11D8-955C-000A95901A7E@rna.nl>
	<20040206232054.GD20387@herald.ox.ac.uk>
	<E178C90A-5943-11D8-972A-000A95901A7E@rna.nl>
	<4024C70F.9060206@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>
	<20040207214528.GH3619@dbs.uni-hannover.de>
	<20040207221146.GI3619@dbs.uni-hannover.de>
	<877jyx1na9.fsf@infovore.xs4all.nl>
	<1A887BB5-5A79-11D8-8214-003065B3343E@rna.nl>
	<20040208213427.GA30009@dbs.uni-hannover.de>
Message-ID: <4644A9B6-5A80-11D8-8214-003065B3343E@rna.nl>

On Feb 8, 2004, at 22:34, Thomas Esser wrote:

>> If VARTEXMF is delete-when-convenient, then maybe TEXMFLOCAL is the
>
> For me, VARTEXMF was an option for storing "variable" data, which
> are the formats, fonts (if VARTEXFONTS is not set) and config files
> which can be set up using texconfig.  I have never considred it as
> delete-when-convenient.
>
> teTeX users will at least loose their modifications they have done to
> the configuration when deleting the VARTEXMF tree.

I see. I put that stuff (config) and added local packages together in 
TEXMFLOCAL. Hmm, maybe I'll add a TEXMFCONFIG to separate additional 
packages (in LOCAL) and stuff from config setting (in CONFIG), set 
VARTEXMF to TEXMFCONFIG and keep VARTEXFONTS for font generation. Or:

	MAIN
	DIST (for me currently two trees, one with teTeX-texmf and one with 
some additional packages by me)
	LOCAL
	CONFIG
	HOME

and VARTEXFONTS for generated stuff like pk files and such.

G

From pragma at wxs.nl  Sun Feb  8 23:31:07 2004
From: pragma at wxs.nl (Hans Hagen)
Date: Sun Feb  8 23:36:26 2004
Subject: [tex-live] texmf-extra
In-Reply-To: <20040208125001.GB24177@dbs.uni-hannover.de>
References: <6.0.1.1.2.20040207175411.01cf5fd8@localhost>
	<20040208125001.GB24177@dbs.uni-hannover.de>
Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20040208232840.03b08eb0@localhost>

At 13:50 08/02/2004, Thomas Esser wrote:

>I don't see a need for extensions. You can put everything you want into
>a local texmmf tree.

i keep the texmf-local tree for updates, and the texmf-fonts tree for 
commercial fonts; that way i can delete the local tree when copying a new 
texmf main tree to my disk and start filling it with updates later on; but 
this is of course a personal perference

Hans

From preining at logic.at  Mon Feb  9 09:32:26 2004
From: preining at logic.at (Norbert Preining)
Date: Mon Feb  9 09:32:35 2004
Subject: [tex-live] Re: Bizarre perforce situation
In-Reply-To: <20040207214528.GH3619@dbs.uni-hannover.de>
References: <AAEB0598-58F5-11D8-955C-000A95901A7E@rna.nl>
	<20040206232054.GD20387@herald.ox.ac.uk>
	<E178C90A-5943-11D8-972A-000A95901A7E@rna.nl>
	<4024C70F.9060206@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>
	<20040207214528.GH3619@dbs.uni-hannover.de>
Message-ID: <20040209083226.GA24821@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at>

On Sam, 07 Feb 2004, Thomas Esser wrote:
> The changed settings in texmf.in would be:
> 
>     % The tree containing the runtime files closely related to the specific
>     % program version used:
>     TEXMFMAIN = @texmf@
> 
>     % The main distribution tree:
>     TEXMFDIST = @texmf@-dist


These settings made it into 
	Master/texmf/web2c/texmf.cnf
which is not really good:

TEXMFMAIN = @texmf@
% The main distribution tree:
TEXMFDIST = @texmf@-dist

Who/When will be made the switch to texmfdist and texmf?

BTW: I really think this is a good idea. I have been using this now
since at least one year, but in a bit different way: I got rid op
texmf-local and use

TEXMFLOCAL=$SELFAUTOPARENT/texmf
TEXMFMAIN=$SELFAUTOPARENT/texlive-src/Master/texmf

thus my texmf.cnf and other config files are used. I think this will
change to

TEXMFMAIN=...
TEXMFDIST=..texlive/Master/texmf

no change for me ;-)

Best wishes

Norbert

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Norbert Preining <preining AT logic DOT at>         Technische Universit?t Wien
gpg DSA: 0x09C5B094      fp: 14DF 2E6C 0307 BE6D AD76  A9C0 D2BF 4AA3 09C5 B094
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
YATE (n.)
Dishearteningly white piece of bread which sits limply in a pop-up
toaster during a protracted throcking (q.v.) session.
			--- Douglas Adams, The Meaning of Liff
From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk  Mon Feb  9 10:07:31 2004
From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz)
Date: Mon Feb  9 10:18:58 2004
Subject: [tex-live] Re: Bizarre perforce situation
In-Reply-To: <20040209083226.GA24821@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at>
References: <AAEB0598-58F5-11D8-955C-000A95901A7E@rna.nl>	<20040206232054.GD20387@herald.ox.ac.uk>	<E178C90A-5943-11D8-972A-000A95901A7E@rna.nl>	<4024C70F.9060206@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>	<20040207214528.GH3619@dbs.uni-hannover.de>
	<20040209083226.GA24821@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at>
Message-ID: <40274DD3.5010203@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>



Norbert Preining wrote:

> These settings made it into 
> 	Master/texmf/web2c/texmf.cnf
> which is not really good:
> 
> TEXMFMAIN = @texmf@
> % The main distribution tree:
> TEXMFDIST = @texmf@-dist
> 
> Who/When will be made the switch to texmfdist and texmf?
> 
sorry. I am in the middle of doing it right now.
watch this space


-- 
Sebastian Rahtz      Information Manager
Oxford University Computing Services
13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431
From wl at gnu.org  Mon Feb  9 10:57:54 2004
From: wl at gnu.org (Werner LEMBERG)
Date: Mon Feb  9 10:58:40 2004
Subject: [tex-live] severe CJK and TeXLive problems
Message-ID: <20040209.105754.116349312.wl@gnu.org>

[Sebastian, sorry for getting this twice.]


Dear Sebastian,


it seems that there have been severe misunderstandings between you and
me regarding the various archives which I've sent to you for updating
the CJK support on the latest TeXLive CD.  My stuff was really meant
as an update; in addition, a file `foo' to be removed has been marked
as `foo.remove'; a diff with `foo.diff', etc.  Everything else should
stay as-is, but somehow this has failed.  As a result, both Korean and
Japanese fonts have been erroneously removed from the TeXLive tree.
Funnily, Japanese metric files are still there, but no outlines.

I asked a few times whether my changes have been applied, and you
answered `not yet'; consequently, I missed to check before the release
whether everything is OK.

How can this be fixed gracefully?  I really would like to take away
the burden from you to manage the CJK package -- is it possible to get
CVS access (or whatever) to the TeXLive tree used for the CD
production?  Additionally, I want to provide some archives to fix the
problems so that users can download them from the TeXLive error
webpage.


    Werner
From wl at gnu.org  Mon Feb  9 10:42:09 2004
From: wl at gnu.org (Werner LEMBERG)
Date: Mon Feb  9 13:26:59 2004
Subject: [tex-live] severe CJK and TeXLive problems
Message-ID: <20040209.104209.242164829.wl@gnu.org>

[Sebastian, sorry for getting this twice.]


Dear Sebastian,


it seems that there have been severe misunderstandings between you and
me regarding the various archives which I've sent to you for updating
the CJK support on the latest TeXLive CD.  My stuff was really meant
as an update; in addition, a file `foo' to be removed has been marked
as `foo.remove'; a diff with `foo.diff', etc.  Everything else should
stay as-is, but somehow this has failed.  As a result, both Korean and
Japanese fonts have been erroneously removed from the TeXLive tree.
Funnily, Japanese metric files are still there, but no outlines.

I asked a few times whether my changes have been applied, and you
answered `not yet'; consequently, I missed to check before the release
whether everything is OK.

How can this be fixed gracefully?  I really would like to take away
the burden from you to manage the CJK package -- is it possible to get
CVS access (or whatever) to the TeXLive tree used for the CD
production?  Additionally, I want to provide some archives to fix the
problems so that users can download them from the TeXLive error
webpage.


    Werner
From pragma at wxs.nl  Mon Feb  9 13:46:46 2004
From: pragma at wxs.nl (Hans Hagen)
Date: Mon Feb  9 13:47:02 2004
Subject: [tex-live] cleaning up of tree
Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20040209134417.01c5d768@server-1>

Hi,

In the process of cleaning up the tree etc, are we going to stick to the 8 
byte names? Like:

   bitstrea -> bitstream

we have filenames > 8 bit already ...

Hans


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE/POD/CTS
                       Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
  tel: +31 (0)38 477 53 69 | fax: +31 (0)38 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                        information: http://www.pragma-ade.com/roadmap.pdf
                     documentation: http://www.pragma-ade.com/showcase.pdf
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

From aa056 at chebucto.ns.ca  Mon Feb  9 14:29:02 2004
From: aa056 at chebucto.ns.ca (George N. White III)
Date: Mon Feb  9 14:45:11 2004
Subject: [tex-live] cleaning up of tree
In-Reply-To: <6.0.1.1.2.20040209134417.01c5d768@server-1>
References: <6.0.1.1.2.20040209134417.01c5d768@server-1>
Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.4.58.0402090905001.343502@montigo.bio.dfo.ca>

On Mon, 9 Feb 2004, Hans Hagen wrote:

> In the process of cleaning up the tree etc, are we going to stick to the 8
> byte names? Like:
>
>    bitstrea -> bitstream
>
> we have filenames > 8 bit already ...

The policy needs to be spelled out clearly somewhere so we can
differentiate between bugs and features.  Ideally, TeX should work with
"typical" filenames on each platform (e.g., handle filenames with spaces
and even things that Americans don't use), but use names acceptable to all
supported platforms for the distribution.  Should it be acceptable to
have "Local site-specific funny stuff/.../texmf-local", e.g., a
platform-specific path prefix to the texmf* directories even if the
contents of those directories must satisfy stricter policies.

An edge case is where site policy forces users to install things under a
path that contains names with embedded spaces and glyphs not found in
ASCII.  If the TeX documentation gives a good rationale for why such paths
won't work, it would make it easier to win arguments over whether
exceptions can be made for TeX.

--
George N. White III  <aa056@chebucto.ns.ca>
  Head of St. Margarets Bay, Nova Scotia, Canada
From aa056 at chebucto.ns.ca  Mon Feb  9 15:12:28 2004
From: aa056 at chebucto.ns.ca (George N. White III)
Date: Mon Feb  9 15:40:37 2004
Subject: [tex-live] let's make some decisions
In-Reply-To: <4026A5F4.1020307@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>
References: <200402071649.i17Gnbu23023@f7.net>
	<Pine.SGI.4.58.0402080902230.337865@montigo.bio.dfo.ca>
	<4026A5F4.1020307@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.4.58.0402090930250.343502@montigo.bio.dfo.ca>

On Sun, 8 Feb 2004, Sebastian Rahtz wrote:

> George N. White III wrote:
>
> > A big bad company ports TL2010 and claims copywrite on the
> > docs, patents on the methods, and invokes the DMCA against anyone who
> > attempts a port. It would be a practical impossibility to have an open
> > source port, not because the bad guy is on solid legal ground, but
> > because the cost of going to court is prohibitive.
>
> Personally, I'd accept the risk, instead of paying good money to shyster
> lawyers now.  I don't have much time for the sleazy legal system which
> feeds on society like this. If someone in 2010 tells me to desist, well
> OK maybe I'll just shrug and go off to play some other game. Ultimately,
> its not a matter of life and death if Microsoft destroys TeX.....

Fair enough, but the decision affects both current and future TeX users.
As long as TeX remains in relative obscurity it probably won't attract
attention from the get-rich-quick-by-whatever-means crowd anyway.

--
George N. White III  <aa056@chebucto.ns.ca>
  Head of St. Margarets Bay, Nova Scotia, Canada
From karl at freefriends.org  Mon Feb  9 15:49:18 2004
From: karl at freefriends.org (Karl Berry)
Date: Mon Feb  9 15:49:27 2004
Subject: [tex-live] cleaning up of tree
In-Reply-To: <6.0.1.1.2.20040209134417.01c5d768@server-1>
Message-ID: <200402091449.i19EnIq08114@f7.net>

       bitstrea -> bitstream

Is there any pressing reason to do so?

I'd be inclined to keep the existing names, but not worry about 8.3 in
new names.  Which is basically what we're doing anyway.
From pragma at wxs.nl  Mon Feb  9 16:07:10 2004
From: pragma at wxs.nl (Hans Hagen)
Date: Mon Feb  9 16:07:37 2004
Subject: [tex-live] cleaning up of tree
In-Reply-To: <200402091449.i19EnIq08114@f7.net>
References: <6.0.1.1.2.20040209134417.01c5d768@server-1>
	<200402091449.i19EnIq08114@f7.net>
Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20040209160455.01cd1720@server-1>

At 15:49 09/02/2004, you wrote:
>        bitstrea -> bitstream
>
>Is there any pressing reason to do so?

there have been changes in the past (for probably equally (un)pressing 
reasons); one of my reasons is that when i search for bitstream i'll never 
reach that path, and since we're in 'clean-up-and-fix' mode ...

Hans


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE/POD/CTS
                       Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
  tel: +31 (0)38 477 53 69 | fax: +31 (0)38 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                        information: http://www.pragma-ade.com/roadmap.pdf
                     documentation: http://www.pragma-ade.com/showcase.pdf
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

From pragma at wxs.nl  Mon Feb  9 15:40:09 2004
From: pragma at wxs.nl (Hans Hagen)
Date: Mon Feb  9 16:07:40 2004
Subject: [tex-live] cleaning up of tree
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SGI.4.58.0402090905001.343502@montigo.bio.dfo.ca>
References: <6.0.1.1.2.20040209134417.01c5d768@server-1>
	<Pine.SGI.4.58.0402090905001.343502@montigo.bio.dfo.ca>
Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20040209153808.01ca79d0@server-1>

At 14:29 09/02/2004, George N. White III wrote:

>An edge case is where site policy forces users to install things under a
>path that contains names with embedded spaces and glyphs not found in
>ASCII.  If the TeX documentation gives a good rationale for why such paths
>won't work, it would make it easier to win arguments over whether
>exceptions can be made for TeX.

does this mean that we can have something

   texmf-someplatform/whatevercomesnext

for those special cases where platforms demand a filename treatment o 
location too different from what we consider 'nice' and general?

Hans



-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE/POD/CTS
                       Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
  tel: +31 (0)38 477 53 69 | fax: +31 (0)38 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                        information: http://www.pragma-ade.com/roadmap.pdf
                     documentation: http://www.pragma-ade.com/showcase.pdf
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

From pragma at wxs.nl  Mon Feb  9 16:13:58 2004
From: pragma at wxs.nl (Hans Hagen)
Date: Mon Feb  9 16:14:24 2004
Subject: [tex-live] cleaning up of tree
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SGI.4.58.0402090905001.343502@montigo.bio.dfo.ca>
References: <6.0.1.1.2.20040209134417.01c5d768@server-1>
	<Pine.SGI.4.58.0402090905001.343502@montigo.bio.dfo.ca>
Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20040209161030.01cb0728@server-1>

At 14:29 09/02/2004, you wrote:

>An edge case is where site policy forces users to install things under a
>path that contains names with embedded spaces and glyphs not found in
>ASCII.  If the TeX documentation gives a good rationale for why such paths
>won't work, it would make it easier to win arguments over whether
>exceptions can be made for TeX.

a nice example is the ls-r file LS-r or ls-R or whatever; since i use the 
same tree for more than one platform, i always have to launch linux to get 
one that is acceptable for all platforms; it would be nice if that one 
would become lowercase (in samba i manage to get two mixed case files at 
once).

with regards to spaces, this indeed needs to be sorted out (double quotes 
vs single quotes for passing such names and so)

Hans


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE/POD/CTS
                       Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
  tel: +31 (0)38 477 53 69 | fax: +31 (0)38 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                        information: http://www.pragma-ade.com/roadmap.pdf
                     documentation: http://www.pragma-ade.com/showcase.pdf
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

From aa056 at chebucto.ns.ca  Mon Feb  9 16:19:02 2004
From: aa056 at chebucto.ns.ca (George N. White III)
Date: Mon Feb  9 16:56:41 2004
Subject: [tex-live] cleaning up of tree
In-Reply-To: <200402091449.i19EnIq08114@f7.net>
References: <200402091449.i19EnIq08114@f7.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.4.58.0402091056380.343502@montigo.bio.dfo.ca>

On Mon, 9 Feb 2004, Karl Berry wrote:

>        bitstrea -> bitstream
>
> Is there any pressing reason to do so?

A lot of code needs to examined for problems with spaces, etc. in
filenames, so it is not the worst time to be removing legacy code. The
advantage of using the longer names while updating an existing package is
that you can simplify scripts that could be vulnerable to name clashes
when truncating, e.g., code like the following excerpt from texfont.pl:

     { my $ven = $vendor ; $ven =~ s/(........).*/$1/ ;
       my $col = $collection ; $col =~ s/(........).*/$1/ ;

If you have looked into texfont.pl, you know that simplications would be
useful.

> I'd be inclined to keep the existing names, but not worry about 8.3 in
> new names.  Which is basically what we're doing anyway.

The question is how badly will things break if, while revising an
existing package, longer names are assumed/used?

--
George N. White III  <aa056@chebucto.ns.ca>
  Head of St. Margarets Bay, Nova Scotia, Canada


From itayf at fhcrc.org  Mon Feb  9 20:39:39 2004
From: itayf at fhcrc.org (Itay Furman)
Date: Mon Feb  9 22:25:47 2004
Subject: [tex-live] texlive 2003 -- acronym package missing doc
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0402091116540.1696-100000@cezanne.fhcrc.org>


Hi,

I have noticed that the default installation of the 'acronym' 
package in texlive 2003 (texmf/tex/latex/acronym) has only part 
of the documentation in texmf/doc/latex/acronym:
	acrotest.dvi  acrotest.tex  readme
The user guide, acronym.dvi, produced from acronym.dtx
is not there.

I was fortunate, in my case, that I didn't check that 'acronym' 
is installed in the main texmf tree, because I went to install
it in the public texmf tree; that's how I found out the the doc 
is missing.

I don't know how spread is this issue among other packages 
installed by texlive.

On somewhat ad different subject: I am willing to try and 
help to texlive work. Please let me know what kind of work is 
needed and I see to what I could commit my self.
I am a latex user for quite a few years but almost never 
did real latex/tex programming. My working environment is linux, 
and so far I managed my TeX distribution by myself.
Programming experience: perl, C, and shell (csh/tcsh).
I have limited experience with system administration 
((sort of :-) managing my home environment).

	Thanks,
	Itay

=========================================================================
            			Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center
email: itayf@fhcrc.org		1100 Fairview Avenue N., Mailstop D4-100
phone: +1 (206) 667 5921	P.O. Box 19024
fax:   +1 (206) 667 2917	Seattle, WA  98109-1024
=========================================================================


From karl at freefriends.org  Mon Feb  9 23:15:08 2004
From: karl at freefriends.org (Karl Berry)
Date: Mon Feb  9 23:15:19 2004
Subject: [tex-live] texlive 2003 -- acronym package missing doc
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0402091116540.1696-100000@cezanne.fhcrc.org>
Message-ID: <200402092215.i19MF8719091@f7.net>

    The user guide, acronym.dvi, produced from acronym.dtx
    is not there.

Thanks for reporting this.  Sebastian takes care of these things, so
I'll let him answer that part :).

    I am willing to try and help to texlive work. 

Thanks very much!

    Please let me know what kind of work is needed and I see to what I
    could commit my self.

One sort of help that is always appreciated is more testing in advance
of the release -- such as finding missing doc files :).  But of course
primarily just testing the installation and resulting tree.  Your
programming experience would be very helpful in that regard.  If that is
of interest, I could let you know when there's a release to test (it
will be a couple of months).

Perhaps some of the other package maintainers on this list will have
more ideas, as well.

Thanks,
k
From preining at logic.at  Mon Feb  9 23:24:05 2004
From: preining at logic.at (Norbert Preining)
Date: Mon Feb  9 23:24:14 2004
Subject: [tex-live] texlive 2003 -- acronym package missing doc
In-Reply-To: <200402092215.i19MF8719091@f7.net>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0402091116540.1696-100000@cezanne.fhcrc.org>
	<200402092215.i19MF8719091@f7.net>
Message-ID: <20040209222405.GA6299@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at>

On Mon, 09 Feb 2004, Karl Berry wrote:
> One sort of help that is always appreciated is more testing in advance
> of the release -- such as finding missing doc files :).  But of course
> primarily just testing the installation and resulting tree.  Your
> programming experience would be very helpful in that regard.  If that is
> of interest, I could let you know when there's a release to test (it
> will be a couple of months).
> 
> Perhaps some of the other package maintainers on this list will have
> more ideas, as well.

One good thing is to stay uptodate with the p4 depot and check for any
problems in building the binaries and in using the packages you need
most. If many people regularly check wether the packages they need most
are in a useable state and fully included and well working, this is
already a big help, I guess, but Sebastian is better in answering this.

Another thing: If you have any strange environment (not i386-linux) it
may be of help for compiling stuff. But I do not know about arch
maintainers, or better, I don't have the overview.

Best wishes

Norbert

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Norbert Preining <preining AT logic DOT at>         Technische Universit?t Wien
gpg DSA: 0x09C5B094      fp: 14DF 2E6C 0307 BE6D AD76  A9C0 D2BF 4AA3 09C5 B094
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
BOOK	There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers
	exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will
	instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more
	bizarrely inexeplicable.
	There is another theory which states that this has already happened.
                 --- Introduction to Fit the Seventh.
                 --- Douglas Adams, The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy
From itayf at fhcrc.org  Mon Feb  9 23:54:24 2004
From: itayf at fhcrc.org (Itay Furman)
Date: Mon Feb  9 23:54:37 2004
Subject: [tex-live] texlive 2003 -- acronym package missing doc
In-Reply-To: <200402092215.i19MF8719091@f7.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0402091444440.1872-100000@cezanne.fhcrc.org>


On Mon, 9 Feb 2004, Karl Berry wrote:

>     Please let me know what kind of work is needed and I see to what I
>     could commit my self.
> 
> One sort of help that is always appreciated is more testing in advance
> of the release -- such as finding missing doc files :).  But of course
> primarily just testing the installation and resulting tree.  Your
> programming experience would be very helpful in that regard.  If that is
> of interest, I could let you know when there's a release to test (it
> will be a couple of months).
>

Count me in.

> Perhaps some of the other package maintainers on this list will have
> more ideas, as well.
> 

OK. So please contact me.

	Thanks,
	Itay



From pragma at wxs.nl  Tue Feb 10 00:04:20 2004
From: pragma at wxs.nl (Hans Hagen)
Date: Tue Feb 10 09:27:45 2004
Subject: [tex-live] afm2tfm 
Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20040210000316.01bbb920@server-1>

Hi,

Is it possible to increase the buffersize (linebuffer) of afm2tfm? Some 
fonts have rather long comment lines (now i have to clean 'm up with a 
script).

Hans


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE/POD/CTS
                       Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
  tel: +31 (0)38 477 53 69 | fax: +31 (0)38 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                        information: http://www.pragma-ade.com/roadmap.pdf
                     documentation: http://www.pragma-ade.com/showcase.pdf
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk  Tue Feb 10 10:58:09 2004
From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz)
Date: Tue Feb 10 11:09:44 2004
Subject: [tex-live] texmf -> texmf-dist
Message-ID: <4028AB31.1030202@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>

I have switched TeX Live to the twin texmf/texmf-dist
arrangement. This has involved changing practically every 
file in the Perforce repository, so those of you who
keep in sync will have got a shock last night.

There are probably many places I have forgotten to make
the change, so watch out!
-- 
Sebastian Rahtz      Information Manager
Oxford University Computing Services
13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431
From preining at logic.at  Tue Feb 10 11:59:28 2004
From: preining at logic.at (Norbert Preining)
Date: Tue Feb 10 11:59:38 2004
Subject: [tex-live] texmf -> texmf-dist
In-Reply-To: <4028AB31.1030202@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>
References: <4028AB31.1030202@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <20040210105928.GC5148@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at>

On Die, 10 Feb 2004, Sebastian Rahtz wrote:
> file in the Perforce repository, so those of you who
> keep in sync will have got a shock last night.

Sic, isn't there a `move' command in perforce, so that the client moves
the texmf to texmf-dist tree? THis would have been a nice thing. 

Best wishes

Norbert

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Norbert Preining <preining AT logic DOT at>         Technische Universit?t Wien
gpg DSA: 0x09C5B094      fp: 14DF 2E6C 0307 BE6D AD76  A9C0 D2BF 4AA3 09C5 B094
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The story goes that I first had the idea for THHGTTG while
lying drunk in a field in Innsbruck (or `Spain' as the BBC
TV publicity department authorititively has it, probably
because it's easier to spell).
                 --- Foreward by DNA.
                 --- Douglas Adams, The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy
From preining at logic.at  Tue Feb 10 12:12:18 2004
From: preining at logic.at (Norbert Preining)
Date: Tue Feb 10 12:12:27 2004
Subject: [tex-live] texmf -> texmf-dist
In-Reply-To: <4028AB31.1030202@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>
References: <4028AB31.1030202@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <20040210111218.GA5423@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at>

On Die, 10 Feb 2004, Sebastian Rahtz wrote:
> I have switched TeX Live to the twin texmf/texmf-dist
> arrangement. This has involved changing practically every 

What about the many files in texmf:
./bibtex/bib/gatech-thesis/*
./bibtex/csf/*
./doc/bibtex8/*
./doc/generic/mfpic/*
./doc/latex/IEEEtran/*
./doc/latex/allrunes/*
./fonts/source/public/yhmath/*
./omega/ocp/char2uni/*
./source/latex/*/*
etc etc etc

And it seems that they are all not left overs:
$ p4 sync -f yhmath/*
yhmath/yhmath.dvi - file(s) up-to-date.

Best wishes

Norbert

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Norbert Preining <preining AT logic DOT at>         Technische Universit?t Wien
gpg DSA: 0x09C5B094      fp: 14DF 2E6C 0307 BE6D AD76  A9C0 D2BF 4AA3 09C5 B094
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
HOVE (adj.)
Descriptive of the expression seen on the face of one person in the
presence of another who clearly isn't going to stop talking for a very
long time.
			--- Douglas Adams, The Meaning of Liff
From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk  Tue Feb 10 12:10:46 2004
From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz)
Date: Tue Feb 10 12:22:19 2004
Subject: [tex-live] texmf -> texmf-dist
In-Reply-To: <20040210105928.GC5148@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at>
References: <4028AB31.1030202@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>
	<20040210105928.GC5148@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at>
Message-ID: <4028BC36.2000605@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>



Norbert Preining wrote:
> 
>>file in the Perforce repository, so those of you who
>>keep in sync will have got a shock last night.
> 
> 
> Sic, isn't there a `move' command in perforce, so that the client moves
> the texmf to texmf-dist tree? THis would have been a nice thing. 

sorry, no. I don't think its possible. for a start, not all 
of texmf has moved. 51 files remain in texmf


-- 
Sebastian Rahtz      Information Manager
Oxford University Computing Services
13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431
From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk  Tue Feb 10 12:47:13 2004
From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz)
Date: Tue Feb 10 12:58:45 2004
Subject: [tex-live] texmf -> texmf-dist
In-Reply-To: <20040210111218.GA5423@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at>
References: <4028AB31.1030202@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>
	<20040210111218.GA5423@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at>
Message-ID: <4028C4C1.1030308@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>

eh? the files are deleted. really:


[spqr]/texlive/Master:P4 files 
texmf/fonts/source/public/yhmath/...
//depot/Master/texmf/fonts/source/public/yhmath/yhbigacc.mf#4 
- delete change 2399 (text)
//depot/Master/texmf/fonts/source/public/yhmath/yhbigdel.mf#4 
- delete change 2399 (text)
//depot/Master/texmf/fonts/source/public/yhmath/yhcmex10.mf#4 
- delete change 2399 (text)
//depot/Master/texmf/fonts/source/public/yhmath/yhmathex.mf#4 
- delete change 2399 (text)


> 
> And it seems that they are all not left overs:
> $ p4 sync -f yhmath/*
> yhmath/yhmath.dvi - file(s) up-to-date.

er., yhmath is not on my system, anywhere, in any package.


if you do
   p4 sync //depot/Master/texmf/...#none
then delete what is left over (as it is not in Perforce)
then

   p4 sync //depot/Master/texmf/...

ypu should find 52 files in texmf
-- 
Sebastian Rahtz      Information Manager
Oxford University Computing Services
13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431
From preining at logic.at  Tue Feb 10 13:19:00 2004
From: preining at logic.at (Norbert Preining)
Date: Tue Feb 10 13:19:09 2004
Subject: [tex-live] texmf -> texmf-dist
In-Reply-To: <4028C4C1.1030308@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>
References: <4028AB31.1030202@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>
	<20040210111218.GA5423@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at>
	<4028C4C1.1030308@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <20040210121900.GC5423@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at>

On Die, 10 Feb 2004, Sebastian Rahtz wrote:
> eh? the files are deleted. really:

Hmm, then why did my p4 sync filename say: Files up to date?
Maybe too old: Rev. P4/LINUX24X86/2002.2/41105 (2003/01/30).

> >And it seems that they are all not left overs:
> >$ p4 sync -f yhmath/*
> >yhmath/yhmath.dvi - file(s) up-to-date.
> 
> er., yhmath is not on my system, anywhere, in any package.

Hmm, why did p4 give me file(s) up-to-date??

> if you do
>   p4 sync //depot/Master/texmf/...#none

Thanks.

Is it possible to delete ALL files in my tree which are NOT in the
depot? I want to clean out the tree, maybe there are more left overs?

Thanks a lot for the help!


Best wishes

Norbert

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Norbert Preining <preining AT logic DOT at>         Technische Universit?t Wien
gpg DSA: 0x09C5B094      fp: 14DF 2E6C 0307 BE6D AD76  A9C0 D2BF 4AA3 09C5 B094
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
LIMERIGG (vb.)
To jar one's leg as the result of the disappearance of a stair which
isn't there in the darkness.
			--- Douglas Adams, The Meaning of Liff
From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk  Tue Feb 10 13:25:49 2004
From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz)
Date: Tue Feb 10 13:37:24 2004
Subject: [tex-live] texmf -> texmf-dist
In-Reply-To: <20040210121900.GC5423@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at>
References: <4028AB31.1030202@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>	<20040210111218.GA5423@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at>	<4028C4C1.1030308@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>
	<20040210121900.GC5423@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at>
Message-ID: <4028CDCD.1050003@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>



Norbert Preining wrote:
> 
> Hmm, then why did my p4 sync filename say: Files up to date?

I am not sure.

> Maybe too old: Rev. P4/LINUX24X86/2002.2/41105 (2003/01/30).

no, should be no problem

> Is it possible to delete ALL files in my tree which are NOT in the
> depot? 

I would advise this, yes. otherwise you go mad. do a sync to 
#none, throw out, sync again and you are sure you are up to date

-- 
Sebastian Rahtz      Information Manager
Oxford University Computing Services
13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431
From preining at logic.at  Tue Feb 10 13:49:02 2004
From: preining at logic.at (Norbert Preining)
Date: Tue Feb 10 13:49:11 2004
Subject: [tex-live] texmf -> texmf-dist
In-Reply-To: <4028CDCD.1050003@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>
References: <4028AB31.1030202@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>
	<20040210111218.GA5423@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at>
	<4028C4C1.1030308@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>
	<20040210121900.GC5423@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at>
	<4028CDCD.1050003@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <20040210124902.GA11381@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at>

On Die, 10 Feb 2004, Sebastian Rahtz wrote:
> >Is it possible to delete ALL files in my tree which are NOT in the
> >depot? 
> 
> I would advise this, yes. otherwise you go mad. do a sync to 
> #none, throw out, sync again and you are sure you are up to date

Uff, but this means syncing a few hundred Megabytes, isn't it?
Syncing to #none delete all files in the depot.

Best wishes

Norbert

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Norbert Preining <preining AT logic DOT at>         Technische Universit?t Wien
gpg DSA: 0x09C5B094      fp: 14DF 2E6C 0307 BE6D AD76  A9C0 D2BF 4AA3 09C5 B094
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arthur's consciousness approached his body as from a great
distance, and reluctantly. It had had some bad times in
there. Slowly, nervously, it entered and settled down into
its accustomed position.
Arthur sat up.
`Where am I?' he said.
`Lord's Cricket Ground,' said Ford.
`Fine,' said Arthur, and his consciousness stepped out
again for a quick breather. His body flopped back on the
grass.
                 --- Arthur coping with his return to Earth as best as he
                 --- could.
                 --- Douglas Adams, The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy
From wl at gnu.org  Tue Feb 10 13:30:49 2004
From: wl at gnu.org (Werner LEMBERG)
Date: Tue Feb 10 14:10:29 2004
Subject: [tex-live] texmf -> texmf-dist
In-Reply-To: <20040210121900.GC5423@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at>
References: <20040210111218.GA5423@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at>
	<4028C4C1.1030308@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>
	<20040210121900.GC5423@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at>
Message-ID: <20040210.133049.225529976.wl@gnu.org>


> Is it possible to delete ALL files in my tree which are NOT in the
> depot? I want to clean out the tree, maybe there are more left
> overs?

I'm also interested in the inverse operation, this is, which files
are in the workspace not present in the depot.


    Werner
From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk  Tue Feb 10 14:09:56 2004
From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz)
Date: Tue Feb 10 14:21:29 2004
Subject: [tex-live] texmf -> texmf-dist
In-Reply-To: <20040210.133049.225529976.wl@gnu.org>
References: <20040210111218.GA5423@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at>	<4028C4C1.1030308@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>	<20040210121900.GC5423@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at>
	<20040210.133049.225529976.wl@gnu.org>
Message-ID: <4028D824.9080407@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>



Werner LEMBERG wrote:
>>Is it possible to delete ALL files in my tree which are NOT in the
>>depot? I want to clean out the tree, maybe there are more left
>>overs?
> 
> 
> I'm also interested in the inverse operation, this is, which files
> are in the workspace not present in the depot.

sync to #none, and see whats left

-- 
Sebastian Rahtz      Information Manager
Oxford University Computing Services
13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431
From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk  Tue Feb 10 14:10:31 2004
From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz)
Date: Tue Feb 10 14:22:04 2004
Subject: [tex-live] texmf -> texmf-dist
In-Reply-To: <20040210124902.GA11381@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at>
References: <4028AB31.1030202@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>
	<20040210111218.GA5423@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at>
	<4028C4C1.1030308@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>
	<20040210121900.GC5423@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at>
	<4028CDCD.1050003@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>
	<20040210124902.GA11381@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at>
Message-ID: <4028D847.5020303@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>


> 
> Uff, but this means syncing a few hundred Megabytes, isn't it?
> Syncing to #none delete all files in the depot.

yes. do you pay for networking? I don't :-}

-- 
Sebastian Rahtz      Information Manager
Oxford University Computing Services
13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431
From vvv at vsu.ru  Tue Feb 10 14:33:09 2004
From: vvv at vsu.ru (Vladimir Volovich)
Date: Tue Feb 10 14:33:20 2004
Subject: [tex-live] texmf -> texmf-dist
In-Reply-To: <4028D824.9080407@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk> (Sebastian
	Rahtz's message of "Tue, 10 Feb 2004 13:09:56 +0000")
References: <20040210111218.GA5423@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at>
	<4028C4C1.1030308@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>
	<20040210121900.GC5423@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at>
	<20040210.133049.225529976.wl@gnu.org>
	<4028D824.9080407@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <m3y8rbvz3e.fsf@vvv.vsu.ru>

"SR" == Sebastian Rahtz writes:

 >>> Is it possible to delete ALL files in my tree which are NOT in
 >>> the depot? I want to clean out the tree, maybe there are more
 >>> left overs?
 >> I'm also interested in the inverse operation, this is, which files
 >> are in the workspace not present in the depot.

 SR> sync to #none, and see whats left

P4 is an ugly and inconvenient system (even) compared to CVS.

Such trivial and common things like the above are really burdensome in
P4.

I wonder why you've chosen to use P4 but not CVS in the first place...

Best,
v.

From ms at artcom-gmbh.de  Tue Feb 10 14:32:19 2004
From: ms at artcom-gmbh.de (Martin =?iso-8859-1?Q?Schr=F6der?=)
Date: Tue Feb 10 14:33:54 2004
Subject: [tex-live] texmf -> texmf-dist
In-Reply-To: <4028D824.9080407@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>
References: <20040210111218.GA5423@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at>
	<4028C4C1.1030308@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>
	<20040210121900.GC5423@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at>
	<20040210.133049.225529976.wl@gnu.org>
	<4028D824.9080407@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <20040210133219.GA2402@artcom8.artcom-gmbh.de>

On 2004-02-10 13:09:56 +0000, Sebastian Rahtz wrote:
> Werner LEMBERG wrote:
> >>Is it possible to delete ALL files in my tree which are NOT in the
> >>depot? I want to clean out the tree, maybe there are more left
> >>overs?
> >
> >
> >I'm also interested in the inverse operation, this is, which files
> >are in the workspace not present in the depot.
> 
> sync to #none, and see whats left

I suggest using "p4 files" or asking at the p4 user mailing list.

Best regards
        Martin
-- 
               Martin Schr?der, ms@artcom-gmbh.de
     ArtCom GmbH, Lise-Meitner-Str 5, 28359 Bremen, Germany
          Voice +49 421 20419-44 / Fax +49 421 20419-10
                    http://www.artcom-gmbh.de
From wl at gnu.org  Tue Feb 10 14:48:24 2004
From: wl at gnu.org (Werner LEMBERG)
Date: Tue Feb 10 14:51:50 2004
Subject: [tex-live] texmf -> texmf-dist
In-Reply-To: <4028D824.9080407@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>
References: <20040210121900.GC5423@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at>
	<20040210.133049.225529976.wl@gnu.org>
	<4028D824.9080407@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <20040210.144824.191661776.wl@gnu.org>


> > I'm also interested in the inverse operation, this is, which files
> > are in the workspace not present in the depot.
>
> sync to #none, and see whats left

This isn't funny :-)  In CVS, I get

  ? foo
  ? bar/umpf

etc., for files not in the repository.  Isn't such a command available
for p4 also?


    Werner
From ms at artcom-gmbh.de  Tue Feb 10 15:03:18 2004
From: ms at artcom-gmbh.de (Martin =?iso-8859-1?Q?Schr=F6der?=)
Date: Tue Feb 10 15:04:45 2004
Subject: [tex-live] texmf -> texmf-dist
In-Reply-To: <20040210.144824.191661776.wl@gnu.org>
References: <20040210121900.GC5423@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at>
	<20040210.133049.225529976.wl@gnu.org>
	<4028D824.9080407@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>
	<20040210.144824.191661776.wl@gnu.org>
Message-ID: <20040210140318.GB2402@artcom8.artcom-gmbh.de>

On 2004-02-10 14:48:24 +0100, Werner LEMBERG wrote:
> This isn't funny :-)  In CVS, I get
> 
>   ? foo
>   ? bar/umpf
> 
> etc., for files not in the repository.  Isn't such a command available
> for p4 also?

p4 help commands

try
        p4 fstat

Best regards
        Martin
-- 
               Martin Schr?der, ms@artcom-gmbh.de
     ArtCom GmbH, Lise-Meitner-Str 5, 28359 Bremen, Germany
          Voice +49 421 20419-44 / Fax +49 421 20419-10
                    http://www.artcom-gmbh.de
From wl at gnu.org  Tue Feb 10 16:11:09 2004
From: wl at gnu.org (Werner LEMBERG)
Date: Tue Feb 10 16:11:53 2004
Subject: [tex-live] using depot
Message-ID: <20040210.161109.80033282.wl@gnu.org>


I now want to actually use the depot for testing.  What is the
recommended way to treat the depot as read-only?  This is, no files
should be created in the depot.  I'm quite sure that I could find it
out by myself after hours of testing, but...

Perhaps someone can send me his setup, please?


    Werner
From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk  Tue Feb 10 16:21:18 2004
From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz)
Date: Tue Feb 10 16:32:51 2004
Subject: [tex-live] using depot
In-Reply-To: <20040210.161109.80033282.wl@gnu.org>
References: <20040210.161109.80033282.wl@gnu.org>
Message-ID: <4028F6EE.70101@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>



Werner LEMBERG wrote:
> I now want to actually use the depot for testing.  What is the
> recommended way to treat the depot as read-only?  This is, no files
> should be created in the depot.  I'm quite sure that I could find it
> out by myself after hours of testing, but...

I am not sure there *is* a way of doing this, other than 
making the tree write only at the OS level.

Being a bear of small brain, I just let it run, and then do
   find . -type f | p4 -x - add
and see if it finds any new files.
-- 
Sebastian Rahtz      Information Manager
Oxford University Computing Services
13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431
From staw at gust.org.pl  Tue Feb 10 16:39:08 2004
From: staw at gust.org.pl (Staszek Wawrykiewicz)
Date: Tue Feb 10 16:37:04 2004
Subject: [tex-live] texmf -> texmf-dist
In-Reply-To: <4028C4C1.1030308@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0402101628250.16089-100000@re86.internetdsl.tpnet.pl>

On Tue, 10 Feb 2004, Sebastian Rahtz wrote:

> er., yhmath is not on my system, anywhere, in any package.

In fact, .mf files should be made from yhmath.dtx and reinserted
to texmf-dist/fonts/source/public/yhmath/

There are many such broken/incomplete packages :(
I'm preparing a list and going to clean that...

> if you do
>    p4 sync //depot/Master/texmf/...#none
> then delete what is left over (as it is not in Perforce)
> then
> 
>    p4 sync //depot/Master/texmf/...

After doing the above 2 steps I have again in texmf/
bibtex/csf/*   ?
dvips/base/*   ?
tex4ht/base/tex4ht.env ?
texconfig/*
web2c/*.pool *.opt and mktex* files, but no updmap.cfg
xdvi/xdvi.cfg

As p4 doesn't rmdir, should I remove all empty dirs in texmf/ ?
Anyway, many of them were already obsolete.

-- 
Staszek Wawrykiewicz
StaW@gust.org.pl


From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk  Tue Feb 10 17:13:36 2004
From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz)
Date: Tue Feb 10 17:25:09 2004
Subject: [tex-live] texmf -> texmf-dist
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0402101628250.16089-100000@re86.internetdsl.tpnet.pl>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0402101628250.16089-100000@re86.internetdsl.tpnet.pl>
Message-ID: <40290330.9090707@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>



Staszek Wawrykiewicz wrote:

>>er., yhmath is not on my system, anywhere, in any package.
> 
> 
> In fact, .mf files should be made from yhmath.dtx and reinserted
> to texmf-dist/fonts/source/public/yhmath/

yhmath would be better served if it did not have two 
packages in CTAN of the same name

> There are many such broken/incomplete packages :(
> I'm preparing a list and going to clean that...

good


> After doing the above 2 steps I have again in texmf/
> bibtex/csf/*   ?
> dvips/base/*   ?
> tex4ht/base/tex4ht.env ?
> texconfig/*
> web2c/*.pool *.opt and mktex* files, but no updmap.cfg
> xdvi/xdvi.cfg

correct. these all come from source


> As p4 doesn't rmdir, should I remove all empty dirs in texmf/ ?
> Anyway, many of them were already obsolete.

set your p4 client to "rmdir"
-- 
Sebastian Rahtz      Information Manager
Oxford University Computing Services
13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431
From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk  Tue Feb 10 17:28:06 2004
From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz)
Date: Tue Feb 10 17:39:39 2004
Subject: [tex-live] texmf -> texmf-dist
In-Reply-To: <m3y8rbvz3e.fsf@vvv.vsu.ru>
References: <20040210111218.GA5423@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at>	<4028C4C1.1030308@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>	<20040210121900.GC5423@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at>	<20040210.133049.225529976.wl@gnu.org>	<4028D824.9080407@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>
	<m3y8rbvz3e.fsf@vvv.vsu.ru>
Message-ID: <40290696.2040709@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>



Vladimir Volovich wrote:
> 
> P4 is an ugly and inconvenient system (even) compared to CVS.
> 
> Such trivial and common things like the above are really burdensome in
> P4.
> 
> I wonder why you've chosen to use P4 but not CVS in the first place...

like I said, Perforce is not CVS. It has different strengths 
and weaknesses.

We just switched at work from Perforce to Subversion (which 
is supposed to be CVS done better), and wow! as it been a 
pain in the neck. It's only because Subversion is free and 
open source that we are doing it

Why do we use Perforce for TL? because its the one I 
understand. as simple as that. if someone else had been 
running TL at the time, they might have chosen CVS, or 
sourcesafe, or whatever.
-- 
Sebastian Rahtz      Information Manager
Oxford University Computing Services
13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431
From karl at freefriends.org  Tue Feb 10 18:34:37 2004
From: karl at freefriends.org (Karl Berry)
Date: Tue Feb 10 18:34:46 2004
Subject: [tex-live] using depot
In-Reply-To: <20040210.161109.80033282.wl@gnu.org>
Message-ID: <200402101734.i1AHYbK31581@f7.net>

    Perhaps someone can send me his setup, please?

I dunno about read-only, I wouldn't bother to try.  As long as you don't
do any p4 submits, you won't affect the repository.

Here are my notes, FWIW, mostly thanks to Norbert:

p4 manual:
  p4 help
  http://www.perforce.com/manual

# envvars for .profile:
P4PORT=sun.dante.de:1666; export P4PORT
P4USER=somename; export P4USER
P4PASSWD=somepw; export P4PASSWD
P4CLIENT=anothername; export P4CLIENT  # i use USERHOST, e.g., karltug

# create user, no particular options needed:
p4 user
# create client, set options  clobber modtime rmdir:
p4 client
# can run p4 user -o, p4 client -o to dump current user/client specs to stdout.

# check out the entire repository (~1.4gb):
mysrc=/src/texlive
mkdir $mysrc
cd $mysrc

# open file(s) for editing:
p4 edit filename

# add new files:
p4 add filename

# when ready to commit:
p4 submit

-
rcs expansion: p4 reopen -t text+k FILE...  $Id$  $Date$  $Author$
emacs: (require 'p4)
p4/cvs comparison: http://www.perforce.com/perforce/technotes/note067.html
From wl at gnu.org  Tue Feb 10 21:10:55 2004
From: wl at gnu.org (Werner LEMBERG)
Date: Tue Feb 10 21:57:51 2004
Subject: [tex-live] using depot
In-Reply-To: <200402101734.i1AHYbK31581@f7.net>
References: <20040210.161109.80033282.wl@gnu.org>
	<200402101734.i1AHYbK31581@f7.net>
Message-ID: <20040210.211055.118629432.wl@gnu.org>

>     Perhaps someone can send me his setup, please?
> 
> I dunno about read-only, I wouldn't bother to try.  As long as you
> don't do any p4 submits, you won't affect the repository.

Aah, a big misunderstanding!  I don't mean the p4 side, I mean the
TeXLive side!  I want to compile the programs, I want to really access
the files in the TeXLive tree, but I want don't want to put any
created files like `latex.fmt' into the TeXLive workspace.


    Werner
From preining at logic.at  Tue Feb 10 22:07:46 2004
From: preining at logic.at (Norbert Preining)
Date: Tue Feb 10 22:07:56 2004
Subject: [tex-live] using depot
In-Reply-To: <20040210.211055.118629432.wl@gnu.org>
References: <20040210.161109.80033282.wl@gnu.org>
	<200402101734.i1AHYbK31581@f7.net>
	<20040210.211055.118629432.wl@gnu.org>
Message-ID: <20040210210746.GE6230@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at>

On Die, 10 Feb 2004, Werner LEMBERG wrote:
> Aah, a big misunderstanding!  I don't mean the p4 side, I mean the
> TeXLive side!  I want to compile the programs, I want to really access
> the files in the TeXLive tree, but I want don't want to put any
> created files like `latex.fmt' into the TeXLive workspace.

Shouldn't happen if you do NOT set texmf-var to something *in* the tree.
I have the following layout:

/usr/TeX/   ---> texlive-src/{Master,Build,..}
            ---> texmf
            ---> texmf-var
            ---> bin/i386-linux
where texmf contains only MY texmf.cnf file (and updmap.cnf, copy from
texmf-var), bin/i386-linux is a COPY from Master/bin/i386-linux (or my
own self compiled stuff), and the settings in MY texmf.cnf:
TEXMFMAIN = $SELFAUTOPARENT/texlive-src/Master/texmf
TEXMFDIST = $SELFAUTOPARENT/texlive-src/Master/texmf-dist
TEXMFLOCAL =                    $SELFAUTOPARENT/texmf
VARTEXMF =                      $SELFAUTOPARENT/texmf-var
(In fact I have some more for commercial fonts etc)
This way all the generated files go into VARTEXMF, and if binaries are
broken in the depot, I still have my own copy, and nothing is written
into texlive.
Local files go into TEXMFLOCAL=/usr/TeX/texmf

If you have more questions, just ask me

Best wishes

Norbert

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Norbert Preining <preining AT logic DOT at>         Technische Universit?t Wien
gpg DSA: 0x09C5B094      fp: 14DF 2E6C 0307 BE6D AD76  A9C0 D2BF 4AA3 09C5 B094
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
MINCHINHAMPTON (n.)
The expression on a man's face when he has just zipped up his trousers
without due care and attention.
			--- Douglas Adams, The Meaning of Liff
From wl at gnu.org  Tue Feb 10 22:22:06 2004
From: wl at gnu.org (Werner LEMBERG)
Date: Tue Feb 10 22:24:11 2004
Subject: [tex-live] fix packages for CJK
Message-ID: <20040210.222206.108816611.wl@gnu.org>


The CJK support for TeXLive8 as distributed on DVD is severely broken
due to missing files.

I've uploaded the necessary fix packages to

  ftp://ftp.ffii.org/pub/cjk/TeXLive8-CJK-fixes

In summary, over 650 files, having more than 20MByte, have been added
(again)...  Everything should now be fixed in the TexLive depot.

Below is the README.

Karl, can you add an entry on the TexLive-Bugs web page?  Feel free to
copy those archives to a CTAN or TUG server if it makes sense to you.


    Werner


======================================================================


In this directory you can find compressed archives which contain missing
files of the CJK package as delivered on TeXLive 8 (dated 2003). For the
particular script the fixes are essential; without them the CJK package
won't work.

  CJK-CNS-TeXLive8-fix.tar.bz2

    Download this if you need support for traditional Chinese in CNS
    encoding.

  CJK-Chinese-TeXLive8-fix.tar.bz2

    This archive contains missing metric files for traditional Chinese
    in Big 5 encoding.

  CJK-Japanese-TeXLive8-fix.tar.bz2

    While the Japanese metric files actually are in TeXLive 8, the
    corresponding PS fonts are missing.

  CJK-Korean-TeXLive8-fix.tar.bz2

    Most of the Korean font data has been erroneously removed from
    TeXLive 8.

  CJK-Thai-TeXLive8-fix.tar.bz2

    Missing files for Thai support in the CJK package.


After downloading, simply unpack the chosen archive(s) into your local
TEXMF tree -- the archives have already the correct directory structure.
A single file will be overwritten (dvips/dbtt/dbtt.map, in the Thai
archive); all other files are new ones:

  cd <your local TEXMF tree>
  bunzip2 <archive>.tar.bz2
  tar xvf <archive>.tar

Finally, you should run `updmap'; this regenerates the map files and
updates the hash database.

Please report problems to cjk-bug@ffii.org.


    Werner Lemberg <wl@gnu.org>  2004-Feb-10
From karl at freefriends.org  Tue Feb 10 23:02:37 2004
From: karl at freefriends.org (Karl Berry)
Date: Tue Feb 10 23:02:48 2004
Subject: [tex-live] using depot
In-Reply-To: <20040210.211055.118629432.wl@gnu.org>
Message-ID: <200402102202.i1AM2bJ24459@f7.net>

    I want don't want to put any
    created files like `latex.fmt' into the TeXLive workspace.

So, you mean a separate srcdir/builddir combination?  Have a "readonly"
srcdir (coming from the repository), but do builds and installs into
other directories?

I don't think this is possible.  At least, I'd be very surprised if all
the scripts and Makefiles in TL have that level of fortitude, although
the base Web2c (and maybe teTeX) does.
From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk  Tue Feb 10 23:08:42 2004
From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz)
Date: Tue Feb 10 23:08:54 2004
Subject: [tex-live] texlive 2003 -- acronym package missing doc
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0402091116540.1696-100000@cezanne.fhcrc.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0402091116540.1696-100000@cezanne.fhcrc.org>
Message-ID: <4029566A.1060605@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>

Itay Furman wrote:

>I have noticed that the default installation of the 'acronym' 
>package in texlive 2003 (texmf/tex/latex/acronym) has only part 
>of the documentation in texmf/doc/latex/acronym:
>	acrotest.dvi  acrotest.tex  readme
>The user guide, acronym.dvi, produced from acronym.dtx
>is not there.
>
>  
>
thats a function of my automated CTAN -> TeX Live procedure. I dont 
normally create
dvi files from .dtx files, and I throw away existing dvi files. its not 
great, but since
there is minimal consistency in packages, I tend to be fairly brutal.

>I don't know how spread is this issue among other packages 
>installed by texlive.
>
>  
>
it depends.

>On somewhat ad different subject: I am willing to try and 
>help to texlive work.
>  
>

i'd like to say "work on the CTAN -> TeXLive processor", but thats a 
fairly tall order
unless you feel very strong

as everyone else says, _testing_ is the key.

sebastian

From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk  Tue Feb 10 23:13:19 2004
From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz)
Date: Tue Feb 10 23:13:28 2004
Subject: [tex-live] using depot
In-Reply-To: <200402102202.i1AM2bJ24459@f7.net>
References: <200402102202.i1AM2bJ24459@f7.net>
Message-ID: <4029577F.3070803@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>

Karl Berry wrote:

>    I want don't want to put any
>    created files like `latex.fmt' into the TeXLive workspace.
>
>So, you mean a separate srcdir/builddir combination?  Have a "readonly"
>srcdir (coming from the repository), but do builds and installs into
>other directories?
>
>I don't think this is possible.  At least, I'd be very surprised if all
>the scripts and Makefiles in TL have that level of fortitude, although
>the base Web2c (and maybe teTeX) does.
>

all the stuff in source.development already builds into a separate tree. 
see
the script //depot/Build/source.development/Build

really. its cleaner than you think.

sebastian
From karl at freefriends.org  Tue Feb 10 23:16:23 2004
From: karl at freefriends.org (Karl Berry)
Date: Tue Feb 10 23:16:35 2004
Subject: [tex-live] fix packages for CJK
In-Reply-To: <20040210.222206.108816611.wl@gnu.org>
Message-ID: <200402102216.i1AMGNC27728@f7.net>

    Karl, can you add an entry on the TexLive-Bugs web page?  

Done, please let me know if problems or suggestions.
http://tug.org/texlive/bugs.html

    Feel free to copy those archives to a CTAN or TUG server if it makes
    sense to you.

I'll ask the CTAN folks if they can handle it, and we can go from there.
We'll mirror it somewhere on tug.org, in any case.

Thanks very much.
From preining at logic.at  Wed Feb 11 01:37:13 2004
From: preining at logic.at (Norbert Preining)
Date: Wed Feb 11 01:37:23 2004
Subject: [tex-live] texmf.cnf is not correct/uptodate
Message-ID: <20040211003713.GA25887@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at>

Hi Sebastian!

the texmf.cnf in Master/texmf-dist and in Master/texmf both still are
not using the new location of map files, dvips is ot finding stuff
because TEXCONFIG is .../dvips// etc. 

I thought about doing it myself but the diffs between
Build/source.development/texmf/web2c/texmf.cnf and texmf-dist ... are
too big.

I guess the following should be in the texmf-dist texmf.cnf:
TEXFONTMAPS =                  .;$TEXMF/{fonts/map//,fontname}
TEXPSHEADERS = .;$TEXMF/{fonts/{enc,type1},dvips,pdftex,tex}//
TEXPSHEADERS.gsftopk = .;$TEXMF/{fonts/{enc,type1,truetype},dvips,pdftex,tex}//
T1FONTS = .;$TEXMF/fonts/{type1,pfb}//;$TEXMF/fonts/misc/hbf//
TTFONTS =                      .;$TEXMF/fonts/{truetype,ttf}//
TEXCONFIG =                    $TEXMF/{fonts/map,dvips}//
ENCFONTS = .;$TEXMF/{fonts/enc,dvips}//
TEXDOCSSUFFIX =                        :.pdf:.ps:.dvi:.html:.txt:.tex
TEXDOCSCOMPRESS =                      :.gz:.bz2:.zip:.Z
DVIPDFMINPUTS = .;$TEXMF/{dvipdfm,{dvips,fonts/{map,enc}/{dvips,}}}//
XDVIINPUTS=.;$TEXMF/{xdvi,{dvips,fonts/{map,enc}/{dvips,}}}//

(these should be all which should be changed according to the diff I
made)


Best wishes

Norbert

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Norbert Preining <preining AT logic DOT at>         Technische Universit?t Wien
gpg DSA: 0x09C5B094      fp: 14DF 2E6C 0307 BE6D AD76  A9C0 D2BF 4AA3 09C5 B094
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
MAARUIG (n.)
The inexpressible horror experienced on walking up in the morning and
remembering that you are Andy Stewart.
			--- Douglas Adams, The Meaning of Liff
From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk  Wed Feb 11 02:22:54 2004
From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz)
Date: Wed Feb 11 02:23:05 2004
Subject: [tex-live] texmf.cnf is not correct/uptodate
In-Reply-To: <20040211003713.GA25887@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at>
References: <20040211003713.GA25887@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at>
Message-ID: <402983EE.8010503@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>

Norbert Preining wrote:

>the texmf.cnf in Master/texmf-dist and in Master/texmf 
>

eh? there is no texmf.cnf in Master/texmf-dist/web2c

>both still are
>not using the new location of map files, dvips is ot finding stuff
>because TEXCONFIG is .../dvips// etc. 
>  
>
TEXCONFIG does not locate map files, does it?

>I thought about doing it myself but the diffs between
>Build/source.development/texmf/web2c/texmf.cnf and texmf-dist ... are
>too big.
>  
>
you seem to be trying to cope with both old and new -style texmf trees

I am also not convinced you are seeing the same files as me. the current 
texmf/web2c, which is what
things should be reading

sebastian

From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk  Wed Feb 11 02:32:30 2004
From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz)
Date: Wed Feb 11 02:32:41 2004
Subject: [tex-live] texmf.cnf is not correct/uptodate
In-Reply-To: <402983EE.8010503@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>
References: <20040211003713.GA25887@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at>
	<402983EE.8010503@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <4029862E.1080606@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>

just to take an example:

[spqr]/texlive/Master/texmf/web2c:p4 -p sun.dante.de:1666 -c 
preining-gamma have //depot/Master/texmf/web2c/texmf.cnf

returns

//depot/Master/texmf/web2c/texmf.cnf#85 - 
/usr/TeX-live/texlive-src/Master/texmf/web2c/texmf.cnf

whereas the current revision is #89. This release _predates_ the big 
changeover.

yes, I know its all a pain, and a waste of bandwidth, and CVS is great 
and so on. But now is a good time to
purge your setups and get clean copies of _everything_....

Sebastian
From staw at gust.org.pl  Wed Feb 11 03:46:07 2004
From: staw at gust.org.pl (Staszek Wawrykiewicz)
Date: Wed Feb 11 03:43:47 2004
Subject: [tex-live] texmf.cnf is not correct/uptodate
In-Reply-To: <4029862E.1080606@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0402110312150.16902-100000@re86.internetdsl.tpnet.pl>

On Wed, 11 Feb 2004, Sebastian Rahtz wrote:

> whereas the current revision is #89. This release _predates_ the big 
> changeover.

OK, but what about
ENCFONTS = .;$TEXMF/{fonts/enc,dvips}//
(just for the sake) in place of the current
ENCFONTS = .;$TEXMF/fonts/enc//

If pdftex still "finds included figures files":
TEXPSHEADERS = .;$TEXMF/{fonts/{enc,map,type1},dvips,pdftex,tex}//
(I'm not sure about that).

% See ftp://ftp.tug.org/tex/fontname.tar.gz
TEXFONTMAPS = .;$TEXMF/fonts/map//

so it would more safe:
TEXFONTMAPS = .;$TEXMF/{fonts/map//,fontname}

---
Stanislavus Archaicus


From harald.von.aschen at gmx.de  Wed Feb 11 05:14:06 2004
From: harald.von.aschen at gmx.de (Harald von Aschen)
Date: Wed Feb 11 05:23:20 2004
Subject: [tex-live] Problems installing doublestroke ps-1 fonts and updmap
In-Reply-To: <20040205213836.GH11701@dbs.uni-hannover.de>
References: <5.2.0.9.2.20040205202817.00a16ec0@213.165.64.20>
	<5.2.0.9.2.20040205190306.00a0fec0@213.165.64.20>
	<5.2.0.9.2.20040205032133.00a05ec0@131.188.3.51>
	<5.2.0.9.2.20040205032133.00a05ec0@131.188.3.51>
	<5.2.0.9.2.20040205190306.00a0fec0@213.165.64.20>
	<5.2.0.9.2.20040205202817.00a16ec0@213.165.64.20>
Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20040211043008.00a00170@213.165.64.20>

Hi,

And here is the solution. During weekend I have used my notebook with the 
"old" tex-live installation from CTAN-CD's 2002 and all was working. So I 
supposed the problems are again the search paths. Today I have tried again 
a solution and found out following (System Windows 98):

E.g. I'm looking for the eurofont.map:
kpsewhich grverb.map

And nothing is found although the font map is installed properly under
F:\Programme\TeXLive\texmf\dvips\grverb
with the standard tex-live installation

Other font maps installed by tex-live in this directory are also not found. 
Why:

C:\WINDOWS\Desktop\susaneu>kpsewhich -show-path=map
.;!!f:/Programme/TeXLive/texmf-var/fontname;!!f:/Programme/TeXLive/texmf-local/f
ontname;!!f:/Programme/TeXLive/texmf/fontname

This means that the directory "texmf-var/fontname" has to be manually 
created, it is not installed with tex-live. And please look here in the 
documentation TeTexDoc.pdf: "put that [map file] into the dvi/misc 
directory" where it is never found!

And under my "old" system all is working because of the "old" searching.

Next problem: updmap is still not working correctly: Fabrice, I have 
replaced updmap.pl and ran updmap. Updmap is not updating pdftex.map 
correctly. Here is the result after (o.k. first texthash) updmap and then

pdflatex harald.tex

(f:/Programme/TeXLive/texmf/tex/latex/doublestroke/dsfont.sty)
(f:/Programme/TeXLive/texmf/tex/latex/german/ngerman.sty v2.5e 1998-07-08)
(./harald.aux) (f:/Programme/TeXLive/texmf-local/tex/latex/dsfonts/udsrom.fd)
[1{f:/Programme/TeXLive/texmf-var/fonts/map/pdftex/updmap/pdftex.map}]
(./harald.aux) )
Warning: pdflatex.exe (file dsrom12): Font dsrom12 at 600 not found

The font is not found! After manually adding the lines from dstroke.map to 
pdftex.map (or editing pdftex.cfg and then putting dstroke.map to the 
correct place for pdflatex) it is working. Here is the important line from 
the log

<f:/Programme/TeXLive/texmf/fonts/type1/public/dsfonts/dsrom12.

I don't know wether updmap is changing the other files. Sorry I have to go 
to bed for now and am able to do more "research" first on Friday.

And please consider for the search: This was done on a fresh Tex-Live 
installation from the dante CD's edition 9/2003 (TeX Collection TeX Live + 
CTAN) and then with all updates as mentioned on the the Tex-Live site. 
(Perhaps problems are appearing here because it was a fresh installation 
and not only an update?)

Best regards

Harald 

From staw at gust.org.pl  Wed Feb 11 06:27:18 2004
From: staw at gust.org.pl (Staszek Wawrykiewicz)
Date: Wed Feb 11 06:25:09 2004
Subject: [tex-live] tex *live* packages [was: .. acronym package missing doc]
In-Reply-To: <4029566A.1060605@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0402110351560.16902-100000@re86.internetdsl.tpnet.pl>

On Tue, 10 Feb 2004, Sebastian Rahtz wrote:

> Itay Furman wrote:
> 
> >I have noticed that the default installation of the 'acronym' 
> >package in texlive 2003 (texmf/tex/latex/acronym) has only part 
> >of the documentation in texmf/doc/latex/acronym:
> >	acrotest.dvi  acrotest.tex  readme
> >The user guide, acronym.dvi, produced from acronym.dtx
> >is not there.
> >
> thats a function of my automated CTAN -> TeX Live procedure. I dont
> normally create dvi files from .dtx files, and I throw away existing dvi
> files. its not great, but since there is minimal consistency in
> packages, I tend to be fairly brutal.

I can only add that's really hard to guess which part of the package
(as distributed on CTAN; I'd rather say: prepared by the P.T. Author(s))
could be dedicated to doc/ source/ and *running* stuff (tex/...)
Since there are no strict guidelines how to distribute/prepare
a package (and so many are rather old, not maintained, but still
usable, who knows?), I prepared my own draft notes how we can proceed.

1. the simplest contents of the package: 
README (or similar readme.txt, etc.) -> doc/<format>/<pkgname>/
.sty (.tex) -> tex/<format>/<pkgname>/
When macros are of general purpose, they should be put in 
tex/generic/.../

1a) If the main contents of the package is font or mp stuff,
    the documentation goes to doc/font/... or doc/metapost/...
    *even* when accompanied with latex's .sty files (which goes
    to tex/latex/...
    Note: font or .mp file can serve for any format, even when
    supporting macros are missing.
1b) all input files (and graphics) for the documentation and/or examples
    should go to doc/.../...

2. the package consists of .dtx, .ins (and README):
   such stuff goes to source/.../<pkgname>/
   but needs preparation for beeing "live":
   .sty, .def, .fd -> tex/latex/.../
   .tex examples -> doc/.../

2a) If README (or similar file) contains full description
    --> doc/.../
2b) If README (or similar file) contains *only* what to do with .dtx
    -- can be left in source/.../
2c) Typical latex package distributed in .dtx (without external
    documention provided) should be processed and resulting .dvi
    should go --> doc/.../
    We cannot assure that .pdf (preferable) output can be produced,
    so if the documentation in such format is not provided by the 
    Author(s), we'd better stay with .dvi. PostScript documents
    could be however converted to pdf with pstodpf.
2d) Sometimes .dtx contains typical font stuff, so goto 1a)
    (Example: yhmath is an evident font package, so should never go
    to source/latex/, rather to source/fonts/yhmath/
    extracted from .dtx: .mf  -> fonts/source/.../yhmath/
    .tfm -> fonts/tfm/...   etc. etc.
    the documentation -> doc/fonts/yhmath/ 
    only .sty -> tex/latex/yhmath/ ).

3. Any extra files for pre/postprocessing, etc., not related to the
   direct usage and reading/preparing the documentation, should be left
   in the source/ area.
    
Please have in mind that we have many hundreds of packages, and only some
of them are prepared (and even beeing updated) in any consistent way.

Typical mistakes when using any automata (just to show):
a) metaobj as latex package (evident metapost stuff)
b) metatex as latex package (plain tex macros)

> as everyone else says, _testing_ is the key.

Uhmm...

-- 
Staszek Wawrykiewicz
StaW@gust.org.pl


From staw at gust.org.pl  Wed Feb 11 07:50:56 2004
From: staw at gust.org.pl (Staszek Wawrykiewicz)
Date: Wed Feb 11 07:48:34 2004
Subject: [tex-live] Problems installing doublestroke ps-1 fonts and updmap
In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20040211043008.00a00170@213.165.64.20>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0402110702220.16902-100000@re86.internetdsl.tpnet.pl>

On Wed, 11 Feb 2004, Harald von Aschen wrote:

> E.g. I'm looking for the eurofont.map:
> kpsewhich grverb.map

What are you looking for: eurofont.map or grverb.map?
Please use rather: kpsewhich -format="dvips config" grverb.map
(see tldoc.pdf)

> .....
> This means that the directory "texmf-var/fontname" has to be manually 
> created, it is not installed with tex-live. And please look here in the 
> documentation TeTexDoc.pdf: "put that [map file] into the dvi/misc 
> directory" where it is never found!

No, that's only an old behaviour that fontname/ is first searched.
Will be changed anyway in future.
 
> And under my "old" system all is working because of the "old" searching.
> 
> Next problem: updmap is still not working correctly: Fabrice, I have 
> replaced updmap.pl and ran updmap. Updmap is not updating pdftex.map 
> correctly. Here is the result after (o.k. first texthash) updmap and then

Hope that you've read the answers from 05 Feb... 
1. Put your dstroke.map (from CTAN) into texmf\dvips\doublestroke\
(sorry for not including that on TL!)
2. mktexlsr
3. edit your ...\texmf-var\web2c\updmap.cfg and add the line:
MixedMap dstroke.map
4. updmap
  
> The font is not found! After manually adding the lines from dstroke.map to 
> pdftex.map (or editing pdftex.cfg and then putting dstroke.map to the 
> correct place for pdflatex) it is working. 

Please just follow the above. Do not add map files to pdftex.map, etc.
Using updmap is better, since it regenerates all global map files which
*are* used for dvips, pdftex and dvipdfm. Just to remember that you should
edit updmap.cfg in texmf-var\web2c\ (on Windows), as it is first searched.

-- 
Staszek Wawrykiewicz
StaW@gust.org.pl


From preining at logic.at  Wed Feb 11 09:21:52 2004
From: preining at logic.at (Norbert Preining)
Date: Wed Feb 11 09:22:01 2004
Subject: [tex-live] texmf.cnf is not correct/uptodate
In-Reply-To: <402983EE.8010503@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>
References: <20040211003713.GA25887@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at>
	<402983EE.8010503@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <20040211082152.GB1392@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at>

On Mit, 11 Feb 2004, Sebastian Rahtz wrote:
> TEXCONFIG does not locate map files, does it?

psfonts.map is searched in TEXCONFIG (that is what I found from dvips
-d-1

And from the source:
...
name = psmapfile ;
...
search(configpath, name, READ))

with psmapfile =PSMAPFILE = psfonts,map
and configpath = TEXCONFIG

> I am also not convinced you are seeing the same files as me. the current 
> texmf/web2c, which is what
> things should be reading

I was either blind or wasn't in sync. But the problem is still in the
texconfig variable.

But now I see that TEXCONFIG=$TEXMF/{fonts/map,dvips}// which should be
ok.

Sorry for the noise.

Best wishes

Norbert

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Norbert Preining <preining AT logic DOT at>         Technische Universit?t Wien
gpg DSA: 0x09C5B094      fp: 14DF 2E6C 0307 BE6D AD76  A9C0 D2BF 4AA3 09C5 B094
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
WIGAN (n.)
If, when talking to someone you know has only one leg, you're trying
to treat then perfectly casually and normally, but find to your horror
that your conversion is liberally studded with references to (a) Long
John Silver, (b) Hopalong Cassidy, (c) The Hockey Cokey, (d) 'putting
your foot in it', (e) 'the last leg of the UEFA competition', you are
said to have committed a wigan. The word is derived from the fact that
sub-editors at ITN used to manage to mention the name of either the
town Wigan, or Lord Wigg, in every fourth script that Reginald
Bosanquet was given to read.
			--- Douglas Adams, The Meaning of Liff
From wl at gnu.org  Wed Feb 11 09:54:16 2004
From: wl at gnu.org (Werner LEMBERG)
Date: Wed Feb 11 09:57:13 2004
Subject: [tex-live] perforce problems
Message-ID: <20040211.095416.00453669.wl@gnu.org>


Sebastian,


you are apparently our guru regarding perforce.

Assume that I've done a `p4 sync'.  Now, by mistake, I delete file
`foo' from my harddisk.[*]  Coming from CVS I expect that calling `p4
sync' again restores the deleted file.  But this is not true!  p4 says
`File(s) up-to-date'.

What is the proper command to force p4 to synchronize not only my
(virtual) workspace with the depot but my workspace with the data I
really have on my harddisk?


    Werner


[*] I use `mc' where it is rather easy to remove read-only files.
From preining at logic.at  Wed Feb 11 10:03:17 2004
From: preining at logic.at (Norbert Preining)
Date: Wed Feb 11 10:04:00 2004
Subject: [tex-live] perforce problems
In-Reply-To: <20040211.095416.00453669.wl@gnu.org>
References: <20040211.095416.00453669.wl@gnu.org>
Message-ID: <20040211090317.GH1392@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at>

On Mit, 11 Feb 2004, Werner LEMBERG wrote:
> Assume that I've done a `p4 sync'.  Now, by mistake, I delete file
> `foo' from my harddisk.[*]  Coming from CVS I expect that calling `p4
> sync' again restores the deleted file.  But this is not true!  p4 says
> `File(s) up-to-date'.

p4 sync -f <filenameyoudeleted>

Best wishes

Norbert

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Norbert Preining <preining AT logic DOT at>         Technische Universit?t Wien
gpg DSA: 0x09C5B094      fp: 14DF 2E6C 0307 BE6D AD76  A9C0 D2BF 4AA3 09C5 B094
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
BEDFONT
A lurching sensation in the pit of the stomach experienced at
breakfast in a hotel, occasioned by the realisation that it is about
now that the chamber-maid will have discovered the embarrassing stain
on your bottom sheet.
			--- Douglas Adams, The Meaning of Liff
From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk  Wed Feb 11 11:15:00 2004
From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz)
Date: Wed Feb 11 11:26:39 2004
Subject: [tex-live] perforce problems
In-Reply-To: <20040211.095416.00453669.wl@gnu.org>
References: <20040211.095416.00453669.wl@gnu.org>
Message-ID: <402A00A4.8030308@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>



Werner LEMBERG wrote:

> Assume that I've done a `p4 sync'.  Now, by mistake, I delete file
> `foo' from my harddisk.[*]  Coming from CVS I expect that calling `p4
> sync' again restores the deleted file.  But this is not true!  p4 says
> `File(s) up-to-date'.


p4 sync -f $filename

(for *f*orce synchonisation)

> What is the proper command to force p4 to synchronize not only my
> (virtual) workspace with the depot but my workspace with the data I
> really have on my harddisk?

does http://www.perforce.com/perforce/technotes/note002.html
cover this situation? I just wrap this into a script
-- 
Sebastian Rahtz      Information Manager
Oxford University Computing Services
13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431
From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk  Wed Feb 11 11:25:23 2004
From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz)
Date: Wed Feb 11 11:37:02 2004
Subject: [tex-live] Re: tex *live* packages [was: .. acronym package missing
	doc]
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0402110351560.16902-100000@re86.internetdsl.tpnet.pl>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0402110351560.16902-100000@re86.internetdsl.tpnet.pl>
Message-ID: <402A0313.1040700@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>



Staszek Wawrykiewicz wrote:

> Since there are no strict guidelines how to distribute/prepare
> a package (and so many are rather old, not maintained, but still
> usable, who knows?), I prepared my own draft notes how we can proceed.
> 
> 1. the simplest contents of the package: 
> README (or similar readme.txt, etc.) -> doc/<format>/<pkgname>/
> .sty (.tex) -> tex/<format>/<pkgname>/
thats ok

> When macros are of general purpose, they should be put in 
> tex/generic/.../

and how do you tell they are general purpose?

> 1a) If the main contents of the package is font or mp stuff,
>     the documentation goes to doc/font/... or doc/metapost/...
>     *even* when accompanied with latex's .sty files (which goes
>     to tex/latex/...
you'd have to quantify "main contents", and provide an 
algorithm for calculating it...

> 1b) all input files (and graphics) for the documentation and/or examples
>     should go to doc/.../...
if one can determine what they are

> 2. the package consists of .dtx, .ins (and README):
>    such stuff goes to source/.../<pkgname>/
>    but needs preparation for beeing "live":
>    .sty, .def, .fd -> tex/latex/.../
>    .tex examples -> doc/.../

thats what I do OK at the moment. unless there multiple .ins 
files, of course.

> 2a) If README (or similar file) contains full description
>     --> doc/.../
> 2b) If README (or similar file) contains *only* what to do with .dtx
>     -- can be left in source/.../

um, that implies _reading_ the README. sorry, no time for that/

...
> 3. Any extra files for pre/postprocessing, etc., not related to the
>    direct usage and reading/preparing the documentation, should be left
>    in the source/ area.
thats my fallback

> Typical mistakes when using any automata (just to show):
> a) metaobj as latex package (evident metapost stuff)
> b) metatex as latex package (plain tex macros)

my default is latex unless its overridden.

this is all of course the point of tpm2, to provide all this 
metadata in a single place.

-- 
Sebastian Rahtz      Information Manager
Oxford University Computing Services
13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431
From h.harders at tu-bs.de  Wed Feb 11 12:47:46 2004
From: h.harders at tu-bs.de (Harald Harders)
Date: Wed Feb 11 12:47:57 2004
Subject: [tex-live] texlive 2003 -- acronym package missing doc
In-Reply-To: <4029566A.1060605@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0402111244590.9174-100000@pc52.ifw.ing.tu-bs.de>

On Tue, 10 Feb 2004, Sebastian Rahtz wrote:

> >I have noticed that the default installation of the 'acronym'
> >package in texlive 2003 (texmf/tex/latex/acronym) has only part
> >of the documentation in texmf/doc/latex/acronym:
> >	acrotest.dvi  acrotest.tex  readme
> >The user guide, acronym.dvi, produced from acronym.dtx
> >is not there.

> thats a function of my automated CTAN -> TeX Live procedure. I dont
> normally create
> dvi files from .dtx files, and I throw away existing dvi files. its not
> great, but since
> there is minimal consistency in packages, I tend to be fairly brutal.

But is there a way to guarantee that the documentation for a package is
installed? BTW, why do you throw away existing dvi files? Couldn't that be
a possibility to provide ready made dvi files for documentation in
TeXLive?

Yours
Harald

-- 
Harald Harders                           Langer Kamp 8
Technische Universit?t Braunschweig      D-38106 Braunschweig
Institut f?r Werkstoffe                  Germany
E-Mail: h.harders@tu-bs.de               Tel: +49 (5 31) 3 91-3062
WWW   : http://www.ifw.tu-bs.de          Fax: +49 (5 31) 3 91-3058


From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk  Wed Feb 11 12:46:45 2004
From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz)
Date: Wed Feb 11 12:59:09 2004
Subject: [tex-live] texlive 2003 -- acronym package missing doc
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0402111244590.9174-100000@pc52.ifw.ing.tu-bs.de>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0402111244590.9174-100000@pc52.ifw.ing.tu-bs.de>
Message-ID: <402A1625.3000800@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>



Harald Harders wrote:

> But is there a way to guarantee that the documentation for a package is
> installed?

not at present :-}

>  BTW, why do you throw away existing dvi files? Couldn't that be
> a possibility to provide ready made dvi files for documentation in
> TeXLive?

I regard the CTAN -> TL conversion as also a test of the 
package. If I cannot compile its docmentation, I don't put 
it in the collection.

-- 
Sebastian Rahtz      Information Manager
Oxford University Computing Services
13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431
From h.harders at tu-bs.de  Wed Feb 11 13:20:18 2004
From: h.harders at tu-bs.de (Harald Harders)
Date: Wed Feb 11 13:20:29 2004
Subject: [tex-live] texlive 2003 -- acronym package missing doc
In-Reply-To: <402A1625.3000800@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0402111306140.9775-100000@pc52.ifw.ing.tu-bs.de>

On Wed, 11 Feb 2004, Sebastian Rahtz wrote:

> > But is there a way to guarantee that the documentation for a package is
> > installed?
>
> not at present :-}

In my opinion, it is one of the main tasks to define a procedure that
guarantees the documentation to be installed, too. At work, I have a teTeX
installation with all documentation installed. It is nice simply to type
in "texdoc packagename" and to get the documentation. At home, I use
TeXLive 8, and with 50% to 60% of my attempts, the documentation is not
installed. This really nervs me. I have already thought to delete TeXLive
and use teTeX, again.
  Because I think it is worth having one TeX distribution for both Windows
and Linux, I prefer to use TeXLive. But the problem with the documentation
has to be solved.

> >  BTW, why do you throw away existing dvi files? Couldn't that be
> > a possibility to provide ready made dvi files for documentation in
> > TeXLive?
>
> I regard the CTAN -> TL conversion as also a test of the
> package. If I cannot compile its docmentation, I don't put
> it in the collection.

But this is problematic because you don't know how often it has to be
compiled, which extra programmes have to be used (e.g., makeindex, bibtex,
etc.). Weren't it possible to test whether doing latex on the dtx file
compiles without error and if so take the precompiled dvi or pdf file?

Have you spoken with Thomas Esser how he chooses the documentation file
for teTeX? I've never had problems with missing documentation files there.

Yours
Harald

-- 
Harald Harders                           Langer Kamp 8
Technische Universit?t Braunschweig      D-38106 Braunschweig
Institut f?r Werkstoffe                  Germany
E-Mail: h.harders@tu-bs.de               Tel: +49 (5 31) 3 91-3062
WWW   : http://www.ifw.tu-bs.de          Fax: +49 (5 31) 3 91-3058


From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk  Wed Feb 11 13:28:16 2004
From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz)
Date: Wed Feb 11 13:39:55 2004
Subject: [tex-live] texlive 2003 -- acronym package missing doc
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0402111306140.9775-100000@pc52.ifw.ing.tu-bs.de>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0402111306140.9775-100000@pc52.ifw.ing.tu-bs.de>
Message-ID: <402A1FE0.6090202@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>



Harald Harders wrote:

> In my opinion, it is one of the main tasks to define a procedure that
> guarantees the documentation to be installed, too. At work, I have a teTeX
> installation with all documentation installed. It is nice simply to type
> in "texdoc packagename" and to get the documentation.

I agree, its good if that works. With either decent 
metadata; a sufficiently intelligent installation script; or 
a reasonable anount of time, it would be possible to achieve 
this. Unfortunately we don't have any of those!


> But this is problematic because you don't know how often it has to be
> compiled, which extra programmes have to be used (e.g., makeindex, bibtex,
> etc.).

I run all of them, always, on every file, several times.

> Weren't it possible to test whether doing latex on the dtx file
> compiles without error and if so take the precompiled dvi or pdf file?

how do I know what the dvi or PDF file is made from?
how do I know which dtx file to run?

> Have you spoken with Thomas Esser how he chooses the documentation file
> for teTeX? I've never had problems with missing documentation files there.

Thomas is a lot more careful than me, is the simple answer. 
And has to deal with quite a lot smaller collection of packages.

my answer is, as always, metadata.
-- 
Sebastian Rahtz      Information Manager
Oxford University Computing Services
13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431
From wl at gnu.org  Wed Feb 11 13:44:34 2004
From: wl at gnu.org (Werner LEMBERG)
Date: Wed Feb 11 13:45:48 2004
Subject: [tex-live] perforce problems
In-Reply-To: <20040211090317.GH1392@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at>
References: <20040211.095416.00453669.wl@gnu.org>
	<20040211090317.GH1392@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at>
Message-ID: <20040211.134434.109568190.wl@gnu.org>


> > Assume that I've done a `p4 sync'.  Now, by mistake, I delete file
> > `foo' from my harddisk.[*]  Coming from CVS I expect that calling `p4
> > sync' again restores the deleted file.  But this is not true!  p4 says
> > `File(s) up-to-date'.
> 
> p4 sync -f <filenameyoudeleted>

And if I don't know the file name any more?


    Werner
From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk  Wed Feb 11 13:40:31 2004
From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz)
Date: Wed Feb 11 13:52:11 2004
Subject: [tex-live] texlive 2003 -- acronym package missing doc
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0402111306140.9775-100000@pc52.ifw.ing.tu-bs.de>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0402111306140.9775-100000@pc52.ifw.ing.tu-bs.de>
Message-ID: <402A22BF.3040308@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>

perhaps people would like to look at 
http://users.ox.ac.uk/~rahtz/tpm2.zip.

This collection of XML metdata files records what
I know about each package in TeX Live. It combines
that with everything (more or less) from Williams' catalogue.

would people be interested in maintaining this and writing
software to make use of it? done right, it only tells me 
which files to preserve for documentation, but also builds
the texdoctk database.
-- 
Sebastian Rahtz      Information Manager
Oxford University Computing Services
13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431
From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk  Wed Feb 11 13:41:20 2004
From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz)
Date: Wed Feb 11 13:52:59 2004
Subject: [tex-live] perforce problems
In-Reply-To: <20040211.134434.109568190.wl@gnu.org>
References: <20040211.095416.00453669.wl@gnu.org>	<20040211090317.GH1392@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at>
	<20040211.134434.109568190.wl@gnu.org>
Message-ID: <402A22F0.7000904@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>



Werner LEMBERG wrote:
>>>Assume that I've done a `p4 sync'.  Now, by mistake, I delete file
>>>`foo' from my harddisk.[*]  Coming from CVS I expect that calling `p4
>>>sync' again restores the deleted file.  But this is not true!  p4 says
>>>`File(s) up-to-date'.
>>
>>p4 sync -f <filenameyoudeleted>
> 
> 
> And if I don't know the file name any more?

p4 sync -f ...

(where ... is not an ellipsis, but Perforce-ese for 
recursive wildcarding)

-- 
Sebastian Rahtz      Information Manager
Oxford University Computing Services
13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431
From h.harders at tu-bs.de  Wed Feb 11 14:10:25 2004
From: h.harders at tu-bs.de (Harald Harders)
Date: Wed Feb 11 14:10:40 2004
Subject: [tex-live] texlive 2003 -- acronym package missing doc
In-Reply-To: <402A1FE0.6090202@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0402111351170.10793-100000@pc52.ifw.ing.tu-bs.de>

On Wed, 11 Feb 2004, Sebastian Rahtz wrote:

> > In my opinion, it is one of the main tasks to define a procedure that
> > guarantees the documentation to be installed, too. At work, I have a teTeX
> > installation with all documentation installed. It is nice simply to type
> > in "texdoc packagename" and to get the documentation.
>
> I agree, its good if that works. With either decent
> metadata; a sufficiently intelligent installation script; or
> a reasonable anount of time, it would be possible to achieve
> this. Unfortunately we don't have any of those!
>
> > But this is problematic because you don't know how often it has to be
> > compiled, which extra programmes have to be used (e.g., makeindex, bibtex,
> > etc.).
>
> I run all of them, always, on every file, several times.

But you are not possible to guess which makeindex styles to use or how to
generate glossary-like environments.

> > Weren't it possible to test whether doing latex on the dtx file
> > compiles without error and if so take the precompiled dvi or pdf file?
>
> how do I know what the dvi or PDF file is made from?
> how do I know which dtx file to run?

Is this really important? For me it seems clear that a prebuilt dvi or pdf
file with the same base name as the package is the corresponding
documentation. Don't you agree?
  It is more complicated if the documentation has another name, e.g., for
hyperref (manual.pdf).

> > Have you spoken with Thomas Esser how he chooses the documentation file
> > for teTeX? I've never had problems with missing documentation files there.
>
> Thomas is a lot more careful than me, is the simple answer.
> And has to deal with quite a lot smaller collection of packages.

That is true, of course.

> my answer is, as always, metadata.

Do you have some kind of idea how this could look like? Should the
metadata contain the commands to produce the style/class files as well as
the documentation? I think, a Makefile could do the job, e.g., for
numprint:



dirs:
	mkdir -p tex/latex/numprint
	mkdir -p doc/latex/numprint
	mkdir -p source/latex/numprint
tex:
	latex numprint.ins
	cp numprint.sty numprint032.sty tex/latex/numprint/
doc:
	pdflatex numprint.dtx
	pdflatex numprint.dtx
	makeindex -s gglo.ist -o numprint.gls numprint.glo
	makeindex -s gind.ist numprint
	pdflatex numprint.dtx
	cp numprinttest.tex README numprint.pdf doc/latex/numprint/
source:
	cp numprint.dtx numprint.ins source/latex/numprint/
	cp numprint032.dtx Makefile souce/latex/numprint/
texlive: dirs tex doc source



Then, the automatic procedure could be to start
    make texlive
or similar for every package. The advantage of using makefiles is that
this is a common known format. You just have to declare which tags have to
be used, e.g., that every makefile has to provide the tag "texlive".

Yours
Harald

-- 
Harald Harders                           Langer Kamp 8
Technische Universit?t Braunschweig      D-38106 Braunschweig
Institut f?r Werkstoffe                  Germany
E-Mail: h.harders@tu-bs.de               Tel: +49 (5 31) 3 91-3062
WWW   : http://www.ifw.tu-bs.de          Fax: +49 (5 31) 3 91-3058

From h.harders at tu-bs.de  Wed Feb 11 14:17:27 2004
From: h.harders at tu-bs.de (Harald Harders)
Date: Wed Feb 11 14:17:37 2004
Subject: [tex-live] texlive 2003 -- acronym package missing doc
In-Reply-To: <402A22BF.3040308@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0402111413090.10793-100000@pc52.ifw.ing.tu-bs.de>


> perhaps people would like to look at
> http://users.ox.ac.uk/~rahtz/tpm2.zip.
>
> This collection of XML metdata files records what
> I know about each package in TeX Live. It combines
> that with everything (more or less) from Williams' catalogue.

Mmh, I don't really understand all of these files:

How are the <Pattern> tags to be understood. Are they similar to the
targets in Makefiles? How does a programme know which commands have to be
run exactly to generate these files?

> would people be interested in maintaining this and writing
> software to make use of it? done right, it only tells me
> which files to preserve for documentation, but also builds
> the texdoctk database.

Will it already help you if we provide an xml file in this format with our
packages? I do not know much about xml. Thus, will these files
still be usable by William for his catalogue?

Yours
Harald

-- 
Harald Harders                           Langer Kamp 8
Technische Universit?t Braunschweig      D-38106 Braunschweig
Institut f?r Werkstoffe                  Germany
E-Mail: h.harders@tu-bs.de               Tel: +49 (5 31) 3 91-3062
WWW   : http://www.ifw.tu-bs.de          Fax: +49 (5 31) 3 91-3058



From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk  Wed Feb 11 14:26:57 2004
From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz)
Date: Wed Feb 11 14:38:36 2004
Subject: [tex-live] texlive 2003 -- acronym package missing doc
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0402111351170.10793-100000@pc52.ifw.ing.tu-bs.de>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0402111351170.10793-100000@pc52.ifw.ing.tu-bs.de>
Message-ID: <402A2DA1.3010607@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>



Harald Harders wrote:

> 
> But you are not possible to guess which makeindex styles to use or how to
> generate glossary-like environments.
>
true. its an 80/20 solution

> Is this really important? For me it seems clear that a prebuilt dvi or pdf
> file with the same base name as the package is the corresponding
> documentation. Don't you agree?

no :-}

look at the packages out there. *many* of them don't follow 
this pattern

>   It is more complicated if the documentation has another name, e.g., for
> hyperref (manual.pdf).

for example

> Do you have some kind of idea how this could look like? Should the
> metadata contain the commands to produce the style/class files as well as
> the documentation?

yes, I believe so. see my tpm2 files

  I think, a Makefile could do the job, e.g., for
> numprint:
...
> Then, the automatic procedure could be to start
>     make texlive
> or similar for every package. The advantage of using makefiles is that
> this is a common known format. You just have to declare which tags have to
> be used, e.g., that every makefile has to provide the tag "texlive".

I agree. I could switch to this immediately with a special 
case saying "IF there is a Makefile with a targte 'texlive', 
then use it".

what should the target do? create a child tree "texmf" which 
  contains the complete setup, which I could copy into 
place? I'd be happy with that

  - get package
  - make texlive
  - move texmf to right place for further processing

Of course, 99.9% of the world has no idea what a Makefile is....
-- 
Sebastian Rahtz      Information Manager
Oxford University Computing Services
13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431
From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk  Wed Feb 11 14:28:22 2004
From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz)
Date: Wed Feb 11 14:40:00 2004
Subject: [tex-live] texlive 2003 -- acronym package missing doc
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0402111413090.10793-100000@pc52.ifw.ing.tu-bs.de>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0402111413090.10793-100000@pc52.ifw.ing.tu-bs.de>
Message-ID: <402A2DF6.8020500@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>



Harald Harders wrote:
> 
> How are the <Pattern> tags to be understood. Are they similar to the
> targets in Makefiles? How does a programme know which commands have to be
> run exactly to generate these files?

thats the guesswork. maybe it is insufficient

> Will it already help you if we provide an xml file in this format with our
> packages? 
no. that would be premature

> I do not know much about xml. Thus, will these files
> still be usable by William for his catalogue?

no at present. this scheme would supercde the Williams' 
cataloguye


-- 
Sebastian Rahtz      Information Manager
Oxford University Computing Services
13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431
From karl at freefriends.org  Wed Feb 11 15:35:38 2004
From: karl at freefriends.org (Karl Berry)
Date: Wed Feb 11 15:35:49 2004
Subject: [tex-live] texmf.cnf is not correct/uptodate
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0402110312150.16902-100000@re86.internetdsl.tpnet.pl>
Message-ID: <200402111435.i1BEZcQ21782@f7.net>

    % See ftp://ftp.tug.org/tex/fontname.tar.gz

On a complete tangent, this url doesn't exist.  I suggest
http://tug.org/fontname, if it's going to stay.

(I don't know where to edit.)
From harald.von.aschen at gmx.de  Wed Feb 11 17:10:19 2004
From: harald.von.aschen at gmx.de (Harald von Aschen)
Date: Wed Feb 11 17:12:17 2004
Subject: [tex-live] Problems installing doublestroke ps-1 fonts and updmap
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0402110702220.16902-100000@re86.internetdsl.
	tpnet.pl>
References: <5.2.0.9.2.20040211043008.00a00170@213.165.64.20>
Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20040211122126.00a1c080@213.165.64.20>

At 07:50 11.02.04 +0100, Staszek Wawrykiewicz wrote:
>On Wed, 11 Feb 2004, Harald von Aschen wrote:
>
> > E.g. I'm looking for the eurofont.map:
> > kpsewhich grverb.map
>
>What are you looking for: eurofont.map or grverb.map?
>Please use rather: kpsewhich -format="dvips config" grverb.map
>(see tldoc.pdf)

Thank you very much for your help and going in this again. And thank you 
for pointing out tldoc.pdf very much! This helps me a lot!

With your help again I have looked into it again. I have done a big error 
and, please let me explain:

> > .....
> > This means that the directory "texmf-var/fontname" has to be manually
> > created, it is not installed with tex-live. And please look here in the
> > documentation TeTexDoc.pdf: "put that [map file] into the dvi/misc
> > directory" where it is never found!
>
>No, that's only an old behaviour that fontname/ is first searched.
>Will be changed anyway in future.
>
> > And under my "old" system all is working because of the "old" searching.
> >
> > Next problem: updmap is still not working correctly: Fabrice, I have
> > replaced updmap.pl and ran updmap. Updmap is not updating pdftex.map
> > correctly. Here is the result after (o.k. first texthash) updmap and then
>
>Hope that you've read the answers from 05 Feb...

Thank you!

>1. Put your dstroke.map (from CTAN) into texmf\dvips\doublestroke\
>(sorry for not including that on TL!)
>2. mktexlsr
>3. edit your ...\texmf-var\web2c\updmap.cfg and add the line:
>MixedMap dstroke.map
>4. updmap

First: Thank you very much for pointing this out again. Yes, I have read 
that answer.
Please don't be angry, could it be that the file

dsrom12.tfm

is missing in the TeTex-Distribution? I have to install it by hand and now 
it is working. Puh, hard work, sorry for that. Because I have installed the 
fonts manually under \texmf-var\fonts\tfm this was working but removing 
this don't. I have checked if the *.tfm files were installed but I don't 
have checked if they have been complete. This was totally my fault I should 
have to check _first_ if updmap is working or not and _then_ looking why 
pdflatex is still not finding the font. I'm very sorry.

But: I still have problems with updmap. Please correct me if I'm wrong 
here: updmap --disable dstroke.map _is_ working. Then dstroke.map is 
commented out in updmap.cfg. But updmap --enable MixedMap dstroke.map does 
_not_ work. I have to manually remove the comment symbol. This was my next 
error: After Fabrice's correction in updmap.pl I have thought this should 
work. So I was disabling dstroke.map by the above command and then I was 
not able to enable it. This confuses me because with other map files in 
updmap.cfg I was able to disable and enable them by command.

And pdflatex is now working and windvi is still not working (not displaying 
the doublestroke fonts and trying to call Metafont) but yesterday I get it 
to work and today I don't know what I have changed...:
kpathsea: Running mktexpk --mfmode / --bdpi 600 --mag 1+0/600 --dpi 600 dsrom12

Best regards

Harald

[...] 

From itayf at fhcrc.org  Wed Feb 11 19:51:47 2004
From: itayf at fhcrc.org (Itay Furman)
Date: Wed Feb 11 19:52:05 2004
Subject: [tex-live] Re: tex *live* packages [was: .. acronym package missing
	doc]
In-Reply-To: <402A0313.1040700@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0402110913010.5352-100000@cezanne.fhcrc.org>


On Wed, 11 Feb 2004, Sebastian Rahtz wrote:

> 
> 
> Staszek Wawrykiewicz wrote:
> 
> > Since there are no strict guidelines how to distribute/prepare
> > a package (and so many are rather old, not maintained, but still
> > usable, who knows?), I prepared my own draft notes how we can proceed.
> > 
> > 1. the simplest contents of the package: 
> > README (or similar readme.txt, etc.) -> doc/<format>/<pkgname>/
> > .sty (.tex) -> tex/<format>/<pkgname>/
> thats ok
> 
> > When macros are of general purpose, they should be put in 
> > tex/generic/.../
> 
> and how do you tell they are general purpose?
> 
> > 1a) If the main contents of the package is font or mp stuff,
> >     the documentation goes to doc/font/... or doc/metapost/...
> >     *even* when accompanied with latex's .sty files (which goes
> >     to tex/latex/...
> you'd have to quantify "main contents", and provide an 
> algorithm for calculating it...
> 
> > 1b) all input files (and graphics) for the documentation and/or examples
> >     should go to doc/.../...
> if one can determine what they are
> 
> > 2. the package consists of .dtx, .ins (and README):
> >    such stuff goes to source/.../<pkgname>/
> >    but needs preparation for beeing "live":
> >    .sty, .def, .fd -> tex/latex/.../
> >    .tex examples -> doc/.../
> 
> thats what I do OK at the moment. unless there multiple .ins 
> files, of course.
>

Or more than 'latex file.ins' is required, for example, in 
acronym.ins:

[snip]

\Msg{* To produce the documentation run the file `acronym.dtx'}
\Msg{* through LaTeX.}

[snip]

Of course, I  know nothing about the internals of the production 
of texlive, and my experience is limited to latex. So what I 
propose here might, in fact, be exactly what is done right now; 
or, worthless for any other reason...

Anyway:

The information to produce all package files is embedded in those 
files, sometimes in explicit statements from the contributors as 
in the above example; sometimes implicitly.

One may try the following approach:
1) Extract instructions for producing package files (beyond 
   the 'latex file.ins') from
	readme, README, FILE.ins, FILE.dtx, ...
2) If	none is found
   	or
   If	failed to produce package files according to 1)
   then
   	use current approach

As I see it, the advantage here is that, the extraction engine, 
1) can be built and improved _incrementally_ as more ways in 
which contributors embed instructions are 'discovered' and 
successfully handled by the engine.

If, in addition, submissions to CTAN in the future are going to 
be standardized, then adapting 1) accordingly should be feasible.

In addition, record the way each package was handled in some sort 
of DB to use in following years to speed-up/double-check the 
migration procedure. (Is this what tpm2 for?)


> > 2a) If README (or similar file) contains full description
> >     --> doc/.../
> > 2b) If README (or similar file) contains *only* what to do with .dtx
> >     -- can be left in source/.../
> 
> um, that implies _reading_ the README. sorry, no time for that/
>

The same approach as above might work here, too?
Ambiguous cases handled by symlinking to doc/.../?

> ...
> > 3. Any extra files for pre/postprocessing, etc., not related to the
> >    direct usage and reading/preparing the documentation, should be left
> >    in the source/ area.
> thats my fallback
> 
> > Typical mistakes when using any automata (just to show):
> > a) metaobj as latex package (evident metapost stuff)
> > b) metatex as latex package (plain tex macros)
> 
> my default is latex unless its overridden.
> 
> this is all of course the point of tpm2, to provide all this 
> metadata in a single place.
> 
> 

From staw at gust.org.pl  Wed Feb 11 21:51:31 2004
From: staw at gust.org.pl (Staszek Wawrykiewicz)
Date: Wed Feb 11 21:48:49 2004
Subject: [tex-live] Problems installing doublestroke ps-1 fonts and updmap
In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20040211122126.00a1c080@213.165.64.20>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0402112125490.18143-100000@re86.internetdsl.tpnet.pl>

On Wed, 11 Feb 2004, Harald von Aschen wrote:

> ... could it be that the file
> dsrom12.tfm
> is missing in the TeTex-Distribution? 

Yes, teTeX 2.0.2 contains only .mf sources and latex support files.
However it shouldn't be a problem to generate .tfm files on the fly.

> ....
> But: I still have problems with updmap. Please correct me if I'm wrong 
> here: updmap --disable dstroke.map _is_ working. Then dstroke.map is 
> commented out in updmap.cfg. But updmap --enable MixedMap dstroke.map does 
> _not_ work. I have to manually remove the comment symbol. 

Actually updmap for Windows cannot add a line to updmap.cfg, you
should do that manually. Then you can
updmap --disable dstroke.map
and again
updmap --enable MixedMap=dstroke.map
Please observe the notation (updmap --help)

> And pdflatex is now working and windvi is still not working (not displaying 
> the doublestroke fonts and trying to call Metafont) but yesterday I get it 
> to work and today I don't know what I have changed...:
> kpathsea: Running mktexpk --mfmode / --bdpi 600 --mag 1+0/600 --dpi 600 dsrom12

It should work if you have complete .mf sources in 
texmf/fonts/source/public/doublestroke/
and updated ls-R
If you have only texmf/fonts/type1/public/doublestroke/*.pfb files
and GhostScript properly installed, mktexpk should call gsftopk, then
gs have to generate "modeles" bitmaps for windvi display.
I've just checked both cases and it works.
 
-- 
Staszek Wawrykiewicz
StaW@gust.org.pl


From wl at gnu.org  Thu Feb 12 00:05:01 2004
From: wl at gnu.org (Werner LEMBERG)
Date: Thu Feb 12 00:06:23 2004
Subject: [tex-live] perforce problems
In-Reply-To: <402A22F0.7000904@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>
References: <20040211090317.GH1392@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at>
	<20040211.134434.109568190.wl@gnu.org>
	<402A22F0.7000904@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <20040212.000501.00305087.wl@gnu.org>


> > And if I don't know the file name any more?
> 
> p4 sync -f ...
> 
> (where ... is not an ellipsis, but Perforce-ese for 
> recursive wildcarding)

Urgh.  This blindly replaced *all* files, regardless whether it is on
disk or not.  For large depots as the TeXLive tree this isn't
acceptable IMHO.


    Werner
From h.harders at tu-bs.de  Thu Feb 12 00:11:09 2004
From: h.harders at tu-bs.de (Harald Harders)
Date: Thu Feb 12 00:11:20 2004
Subject: [tex-live] texlive 2003 -- acronym package missing doc
In-Reply-To: <402A2DA1.3010607@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0402120007410.14798-100000@pc52.ifw.ing.tu-bs.de>

On Wed, 11 Feb 2004, Sebastian Rahtz wrote:

>   I think, a Makefile could do the job, e.g., for
> > numprint:
> ...
> > Then, the automatic procedure could be to start
> >     make texlive
> > or similar for every package. The advantage of using makefiles is that
> > this is a common known format. You just have to declare which tags have to
> > be used, e.g., that every makefile has to provide the tag "texlive".
>
> I agree. I could switch to this immediately with a special
> case saying "IF there is a Makefile with a targte 'texlive',
> then use it".
>
> what should the target do? create a child tree "texmf" which
>   contains the complete setup, which I could copy into
> place? I'd be happy with that
>
>   - get package
>   - make texlive
>   - move texmf to right place for further processing

That is a great idea. I will include the target "texlive" to all Makefiles
of my packages.

> Of course, 99.9% of the world has no idea what a Makefile is....

May be, the percentage is a little better in TeX world (about 95%?).

But nevertheless, I am happy with that Makefile solution.

Thank you for this discussion.

Yours
Harald

-- 
Harald Harders                           Langer Kamp 8
Technische Universit?t Braunschweig      D-38106 Braunschweig
Institut f?r Werkstoffe                  Germany
E-Mail: h.harders@tu-bs.de               Tel: +49 (5 31) 3 91-3062
WWW   : http://www.ifw.tu-bs.de          Fax: +49 (5 31) 3 91-3058

From sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk  Wed Feb 11 23:24:36 2004
From: sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz)
Date: Thu Feb 12 00:24:45 2004
Subject: [tex-live] perforce problems
In-Reply-To: <20040212.000501.00305087.wl@gnu.org>
References: <20040211090317.GH1392@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at>	<20040211.134434.109568190.wl@gnu.org>	<402A22F0.7000904@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>
	<20040212.000501.00305087.wl@gnu.org>
Message-ID: <402AABA4.9000508@oucs.ox.ac.uk>

Werner LEMBERG wrote:

>
>Urgh.  This blindly replaced *all* files, regardless whether it is on
>disk or not.  For large depots as the TeXLive tree this isn't
>acceptable IMHO.
>  
>

Hey, guys, let's say it one more time: Perforce IS NOT CVS.  Perforce
is a very capable and sophisticated change management system which
requires a very different working method to CVS. You cannot skip between 
them
and expect things to work identically.

We have all, I think, agreed that TeX Live should switch to a public CVS 
repository
at the end of this cycle. We also, I think, agree that we should not do 
this changeover
now.

So, be patient. CVS is coming. And I'll hate it :-}

Sebastian
From sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk  Wed Feb 11 23:27:31 2004
From: sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz)
Date: Thu Feb 12 00:27:40 2004
Subject: [tex-live] texlive 2003 -- acronym package missing doc
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0402120007410.14798-100000@pc52.ifw.ing.tu-bs.de>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0402120007410.14798-100000@pc52.ifw.ing.tu-bs.de>
Message-ID: <402AAC53.8060904@oucs.ox.ac.uk>

Harald Harders wrote:

>That is a great idea. I will include the target "texlive" to all Makefiles
>of my packages.
>
>  
>
ok, lets experiment. You set up one of your pages and get it on CTAN,
I'll adapt my sausage machine, and lets see if it works. Although its 
not a universal solution,
it does have the benefit of being very clear for anyone who *does* 
understand make.

so my rule is,

 - look for existence of Makefile
 - grep for "^texlive:$"
 - if found, execute, move texmf tree and finish

Sebastian

From karl at freefriends.org  Thu Feb 12 00:33:21 2004
From: karl at freefriends.org (Karl Berry)
Date: Thu Feb 12 00:34:03 2004
Subject: [tex-live] perforce problems
In-Reply-To: <402AABA4.9000508@oucs.ox.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <200402112333.i1BNXLp20203@f7.net>

    Perforce IS NOT CVS.  

Agreed.

But still, is there any way to do what Werner asked in p4?
I've wanted this myself, many times.  In essence, update everything from the
repository that has *not* been locally modified.

Without this, it's hard to ever know if you're working with a clean
source tree.  Which makes me believe it is possible -- but I've never
been able to find a way, and I've perused the manuals and faqs ...

Thanks,
k
From karl at freefriends.org  Thu Feb 12 00:35:56 2004
From: karl at freefriends.org (Karl Berry)
Date: Thu Feb 12 00:36:06 2004
Subject: [tex-live] texlive 2003 -- acronym package missing doc
In-Reply-To: <402AAC53.8060904@oucs.ox.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <200402112335.i1BNZub21125@f7.net>

Sorry to be persnickety, but I need to be clear.

     - if found, execute, 

Meaning, "make texlive", right?

     move texmf tree 

Meaning, it's supposed to create a texmf tree in the current (source)
directory, right?  And you're going to do (the equivalent of):
(cd texmf && tar cf - . | (cd /dest/texmf && tar xf -))

Is that right?

    and finish

?


Thanks.
From sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk  Wed Feb 11 23:42:00 2004
From: sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz)
Date: Thu Feb 12 00:42:10 2004
Subject: [tex-live] Re: tex *live* packages [was: .. acronym package missing
	doc]
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0402110913010.5352-100000@cezanne.fhcrc.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0402110913010.5352-100000@cezanne.fhcrc.org>
Message-ID: <402AAFB8.5090606@oucs.ox.ac.uk>

Itay Furman wrote:

>
>
>The information to produce all package files is embedded in those 
>files, sometimes in explicit statements from the contributors as 
>in the above example; sometimes implicitly.
>
>One may try the following approach:
>1) Extract instructions for producing package files (beyond 
>   the 'latex file.ins') from
>	readme, README, FILE.ins, FILE.dtx, ...
>2) If	none is found
>   	or
>   If	failed to produce package files according to 1)
>   then
>   	use current approach
>  
>
this seems to imply _reading_ the files. That is not on.
a) I don't have time; b) (most importantly) I don't want to
have to reread them when the package changes (do you realize
how many package updates there are a week? a lot...)

>As I see it, the advantage here is that, the extraction engine, 
>1) can be built and improved _incrementally_ as more ways in 
>which contributors embed instructions are 'discovered' and 
>successfully handled by the engine.
>  
>
this is basically what I do. that is to say, my sausage machine
has defaults, and overrides. As I meet a new funny package,
I add overrides for it. generally, it works.

>In addition, record the way each package was handled in some sort 
>of DB to use in following years to speed-up/double-check the 
>migration procedure. (Is this what tpm2 for?)
>
>  
>
yes, precisely. my current sausage maker is a messy giant perl script.

>
>The same approach as above might work here, too?
>Ambiguous cases handled by symlinking to doc/.../?
>  
>
ah, symlinks. cf the other discussion about CVS. you can't have symlinks
under CVS :-}

not to mention the fact that they don't work under Windows properly.

sebastian
From sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk  Wed Feb 11 23:46:11 2004
From: sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz)
Date: Thu Feb 12 00:46:20 2004
Subject: [tex-live] perforce problems
In-Reply-To: <200402112333.i1BNXLp20203@f7.net>
References: <200402112333.i1BNXLp20203@f7.net>
Message-ID: <402AB0B3.1030500@oucs.ox.ac.uk>

Karl Berry wrote:

>But still, is there any way to do what Werner asked in p4?
>I've wanted this myself, many times.  In essence, update everything from the
>repository that has *not* been locally modified.
>
>  
>
sorry, but I think you are trying to fight the system. Perforce
knows the state of what you have checked out. don't lie to it!

>Without this, it's hard to ever know if you're working with a clean
>source tree. 
>  
>
if you do
 
   p4 diff -se ... | p4 -x - edit

Perforce will open for edit all those files which are different from
what is on the server. Is that the sort of thing you want?

  p4 help diff

may help matters here.

Sebastian
From sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk  Wed Feb 11 23:48:08 2004
From: sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz)
Date: Thu Feb 12 00:48:17 2004
Subject: [tex-live] texlive 2003 -- acronym package missing doc
In-Reply-To: <200402112335.i1BNZub21125@f7.net>
References: <200402112335.i1BNZub21125@f7.net>
Message-ID: <402AB128.3040805@oucs.ox.ac.uk>

Karl Berry wrote:

>Sorry to be persnickety, but I need to be clear.
>
>     - if found, execute, 
>
>Meaning, "make texlive", right?
>  
>
yup

>     move texmf tree 
>
>Meaning, it's supposed to create a texmf tree in the current (source)
>directory, right? 
>

yes.

> And you're going to do (the equivalent of):
>(cd texmf && tar cf - . | (cd /dest/texmf && tar xf -))
>
>Is that right?
>  
>
more or less, yes. I move it to a location whence I can
do the repository update (see the scary //depot/Build/cdbuild/place)

>    and finish
>
>?
>  
>

i mean, "don't do any more processing"

sebastian
From mathelmr at math.nus.edu.sg  Thu Feb 12 01:43:06 2004
From: mathelmr at math.nus.edu.sg (Helmer Aslaksen)
Date: Thu Feb 12 02:14:41 2004
Subject: [tex-live] Missing packages selection tree when updating fptex
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0402120841590.11128-100000@singa.math.nus.edu.sg>

Hi guys,

I just installed TL2003 on WinXP notebook. No problem.

I then went to the fpTeX home page and downloaded the updated TeXsetup 
file and followed the instructions.

When I came to the packages selection screen and clicked on texlive to 
open the tree, the screen was mostly blank, with just some items 
available. When I tried to click on some of those that were available, I 
got an error message about "The parameter is incorrect".

Any suggestions? There was some discussion about a similar problem some 
time ago, but it didn't seem to be resolved.

Thanks!

Helmer

Helmer ASLAKSEN
Department of Mathematics
National University of Singapore
Singapore 117543
Singapore

<aslaksen@math.nus.edu.sg>
<www.math.nus.edu.sg/aslaksen/>

Phone: +65 6874 2746
Fax: +65 6779 5452


From staw at gust.org.pl  Thu Feb 12 04:15:53 2004
From: staw at gust.org.pl (Staszek Wawrykiewicz)
Date: Thu Feb 12 04:13:05 2004
Subject: [tex-live] Re: tex *live* packages [was: .. acronym package
	missing doc]
In-Reply-To: <402A0313.1040700@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0402120230560.18441-100000@re86.internetdsl.tpnet.pl>

On Wed, 11 Feb 2004, Sebastian Rahtz wrote:

> > When macros are of general purpose, they should be put in 
> > tex/generic/.../
> 
> and how do you tell they are general purpose?

It should be designated in any level in metadata file.
 
> > 1a) If the main contents of the package is font or mp stuff,
> >     the documentation goes to doc/font/... or doc/metapost/...
> >     *even* when accompanied with latex's .sty files (which goes
> >     to tex/latex/...
> you'd have to quantify "main contents", and provide an 
> algorithm for calculating it...

If the package contains .mf sources and/or type1 .pfb files, it belongs
to font stuff. So Hans would be happy using them also in ConTeXt...
 
> > 1b) all input files (and graphics) for the documentation and/or examples
> >     should go to doc/.../...
> if one can determine what they are

Yes, it's difficult to guess.

> > 2a) If README (or similar file) contains full description
> >     --> doc/.../
> > 2b) If README (or similar file) contains *only* what to do with .dtx
> >     -- can be left in source/.../
> 
> um, that implies _reading_ the README. sorry, no time for that/

So packages still have to be tested and... corrected. Again and again
for every release.
 
> > Typical mistakes when using any automata (just to show):
> > a) metaobj as latex package (evident metapost stuff)
> > b) metatex as latex package (plain tex macros)
> 
> my default is latex unless its overridden.
> 
> this is all of course the point of tpm2, to provide all this 
> metadata in a single place.
 
Please tell us how as far it is done:
1. e.g. TL depot contains correct package layout and contents
2. the package is then updated on CTAN, so do you make it again from the 
   scratch for TL? If not, what about additions/deletions in the new 
   version (example: doublestroke was previously without type1 fonts, now
   we have them, but unfortunatelly .map file wasn't added to TL).

To conclude: the metadata file for every package should be made for CTAN
at first place. It can serve for _any_ distribution, as well as for CTAN
searching/indexing tools.  Should be obligatory for any new package
upload. For older packages all prescriptions can be made in, say, one
year. Of course, all experience from TL and ready made (and rechecked)
recipes could make it easier and faster.

Things to do:
1. good and complete specification for such metadata file
2. finding a team for rechecking the current stuff, according to clear
   criteria.

Not so brutal (or optimistic)? ;-}

-- 
Staszek Wawrykiewicz 
StaW@gust.org.pl


From te at dbs.uni-hannover.de  Thu Feb 12 07:18:45 2004
From: te at dbs.uni-hannover.de (Thomas Esser)
Date: Thu Feb 12 07:18:59 2004
Subject: [tex-live] Problems installing doublestroke ps-1 fonts and updmap
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0402112125490.18143-100000@re86.internetdsl.tpnet.pl>
References: <5.2.0.9.2.20040211122126.00a1c080@213.165.64.20>
	<Pine.LNX.4.44.0402112125490.18143-100000@re86.internetdsl.tpnet.pl>
Message-ID: <20040212061845.GB22082@dbs.uni-hannover.de>

> updmap --enable MixedMap=dstroke.map

Hm... That means that the windows version is not compatible to my version:
  --enable maptype mapfile   add or enable a Map or MixedMap

Fabrice?

You (Harald) say that the tfm files are missing. Which application has
a problem with that situation?

Thomas
From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk  Thu Feb 12 10:00:45 2004
From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz)
Date: Thu Feb 12 10:12:28 2004
Subject: [tex-live] Re: tex *live* packages [was: .. acronym
	package	missing doc]
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0402120230560.18441-100000@re86.internetdsl.tpnet.pl>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0402120230560.18441-100000@re86.internetdsl.tpnet.pl>
Message-ID: <402B40BD.6030308@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>


> 
> If the package contains .mf sources and/or type1 .pfb files, it belongs
> to font stuff. So Hans would be happy using them also in ConTeXt...
>  
> 
What if its primary job is to provide a LaTeX package,
and adds a font with one character to support that?


>>um, that implies _reading_ the README. sorry, no time for that/
> 
> 
> So packages still have to be tested and... corrected. Again and again
> for every release.

yes, but the decisions taken must be recorded. otherwise you 
have to retest all packages every time...

> Please tell us how as far it is done:
> 1. e.g. TL depot contains correct package layout and contents
> 2. the package is then updated on CTAN, so do you make it again from the 
>    scratch for TL? If not, what about additions/deletions in the new 
>    version (example: doublestroke was previously without type1 fonts, now
>    we have them, but unfortunatelly .map file wasn't added to TL).

when I get a message from CTAN about a package update, I 
download it, run the sausage machine, and reinstall the 
package in TL

> To conclude: the metadata file for every package should be made for CTAN
> at first place. It can serve for _any_ distribution, as well as for CTAN
> searching/indexing tools.  Should be obligatory for any new package
> upload.

well, precisely. this is what we decided to do a year ago in 
Bremen. But we have not made any progress on it.


> Things to do:
> 1. good and complete specification for such metadata file
> 2. finding a team for rechecking the current stuff, according to clear
>    criteria.

agreed. that was why I circulated the TPM2 material last 
March for comment.

-- 
Sebastian Rahtz      Information Manager
Oxford University Computing Services
13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431
From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk  Thu Feb 12 10:13:20 2004
From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz)
Date: Thu Feb 12 10:25:04 2004
Subject: [tex-live] Re: tex *live* packages [was: .. acronym package missing
	doc]
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0402112317180.6477-100000@cezanne.fhcrc.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0402112317180.6477-100000@cezanne.fhcrc.org>
Message-ID: <402B43B0.8040405@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>



Itay Furman wrote:

> Could you be more specific:
> 1) 'CTAN -> TeXLive processor': is it that 'giand perl script' 
> and friends?

yes. its not *that* big, just a messy accretion over the years

> 2) what is tall order? how much time (or other resources) you 
> anticipate in that?

depends how good a programmer you are. my idea is to take
the current Perl script and simplify it considerably by 
taking out all the special cases. This information would be 
stored in TPM2 .xml files. When the script runs on package 
X, it reads X.xml, which tells it the parameters for the job 
(is it a  latex package, a font package, etc; what is the 
doc file; which .ins file to run).

> I'd like to try and pay back to the community, but don't want to 
> raise too many expectations.

the alternative is for you to work on checking the metadata;
if I (or someone else) changes the sausage machine to read
XML files, the job is to make sure they are right!
-- 
Sebastian Rahtz      Information Manager
Oxford University Computing Services
13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431
From vvv at vsu.ru  Thu Feb 12 10:38:48 2004
From: vvv at vsu.ru (Vladimir Volovich)
Date: Thu Feb 12 10:39:03 2004
Subject: [tex-live] texlive 2003 -- acronym package missing doc
In-Reply-To: <402AAC53.8060904@oucs.ox.ac.uk> (Sebastian Rahtz's message of
	"Wed, 11 Feb 2004 17:27:31 -0500")
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0402120007410.14798-100000@pc52.ifw.ing.tu-bs.de>
	<402AAC53.8060904@oucs.ox.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <m3d68kvdqv.fsf@vvv.vsu.ru>

"SR" == Sebastian Rahtz writes:

 SR> Although its not a universal solution, it does have the benefit
 SR> of being very clear for anyone who *does* understand make.

Maybe we can start creating a "repository of Makefiles" even for those
packages which do/will not include those makefiles.

"Only" a few hundred of such Makefiles will solve the issue in
full. One needs to go through the CTAN packages present on texlive,
study it's installation instructions, and create a Makefile.

As far as I remember, Thomas already has something like that for
packages present in teTeX.

Best,
v.

From vvv at vsu.ru  Thu Feb 12 10:51:11 2004
From: vvv at vsu.ru (Vladimir Volovich)
Date: Thu Feb 12 10:51:23 2004
Subject: [tex-live] texlive 2003 -- acronym package missing doc
In-Reply-To: <m3d68kvdqv.fsf@vvv.vsu.ru> (Vladimir Volovich's message of
	"Thu, 12 Feb 2004 12:38:48 +0300")
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0402120007410.14798-100000@pc52.ifw.ing.tu-bs.de>
	<402AAC53.8060904@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <m3d68kvdqv.fsf@vvv.vsu.ru>
Message-ID: <m38yj8vd68.fsf@vvv.vsu.ru>

"VV" == Vladimir Volovich writes:

 VV> Maybe we can start creating a "repository of Makefiles" even for
 VV> those packages which do/will not include those makefiles.

although, i agree that a metadata approach is better, i.e. there shall
be a well-defined DTD for the TPM2, and all new packages (or updates)
to CTAN shall provide an XML with that metadata; then we can manually
add it to older packages.

Best,
v.

From h.harders at tu-bs.de  Thu Feb 12 11:25:32 2004
From: h.harders at tu-bs.de (Harald Harders)
Date: Thu Feb 12 11:25:45 2004
Subject: [tex-live] texlive 2003 -- acronym package missing doc
In-Reply-To: <402AAC53.8060904@oucs.ox.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0402121120430.18796-100000@pc52.ifw.ing.tu-bs.de>

On Wed, 11 Feb 2004, Sebastian Rahtz wrote:

> >That is a great idea. I will include the target "texlive" to all Makefiles
> >of my packages.
>
> ok, lets experiment. You set up one of your pages and get it on CTAN,
> I'll adapt my sausage machine, and lets see if it works. Although its
> not a universal solution,
> it does have the benefit of being very clear for anyone who *does*
> understand make.

I will prepare one of my packages during the weekend. When I will have put
it on CTAN, I will send an eMail to the list.

> so my rule is,
>
>  - look for existence of Makefile
>  - grep for "^texlive:$"

Ah, I see. The target texlive: has to be without any dependencies. No
problem.

>  - if found, execute, move texmf tree and finish

Yours
Harald

-- 
Harald Harders                           Langer Kamp 8
Technische Universit?t Braunschweig      D-38106 Braunschweig
Institut f?r Werkstoffe                  Germany
E-Mail: h.harders@tu-bs.de               Tel: +49 (5 31) 3 91-3062
WWW   : http://www.ifw.tu-bs.de          Fax: +49 (5 31) 3 91-3058


From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk  Thu Feb 12 11:52:30 2004
From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz)
Date: Thu Feb 12 12:04:14 2004
Subject: [tex-live] texlive 2003 -- acronym package missing doc
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0402121120430.18796-100000@pc52.ifw.ing.tu-bs.de>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0402121120430.18796-100000@pc52.ifw.ing.tu-bs.de>
Message-ID: <402B5AEE.50002@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>



Harald Harders wrote:

>> - look for existence of Makefile
>> - grep for "^texlive:$"
> 
> 
> Ah, I see. The target texlive: has to be without any dependencies. N
no, not necessarily.

you experiment, find a good way to express what you need, 
and I'll work around it

-- 
Sebastian Rahtz      Information Manager
Oxford University Computing Services
13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431
From h.harders at tu-bs.de  Thu Feb 12 12:35:53 2004
From: h.harders at tu-bs.de (Harald Harders)
Date: Thu Feb 12 12:36:04 2004
Subject: [tex-live] texlive 2003 -- acronym package missing doc
In-Reply-To: <402B5AEE.50002@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0402121234140.19404-100000@pc52.ifw.ing.tu-bs.de>

On Thu, 12 Feb 2004, Sebastian Rahtz wrote:

> >> - grep for "^texlive:$"
>
> > Ah, I see. The target texlive: has to be without any dependencies.
> no, not necessarily.

Then, you should grep for "^texlive:" instead of "^texlive:$", I think.

> you experiment, find a good way to express what you need,
> and I'll work around it

Okay.

-- 
Harald Harders                           Langer Kamp 8
Technische Universit?t Braunschweig      D-38106 Braunschweig
Institut f?r Werkstoffe                  Germany
E-Mail: h.harders@tu-bs.de               Tel: +49 (5 31) 3 91-3062
WWW   : http://www.ifw.tu-bs.de          Fax: +49 (5 31) 3 91-3058



From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk  Thu Feb 12 12:39:34 2004
From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz)
Date: Thu Feb 12 12:51:18 2004
Subject: [tex-live] texlive 2003 -- acronym package missing doc
In-Reply-To: <m3d68kvdqv.fsf@vvv.vsu.ru>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0402120007410.14798-100000@pc52.ifw.ing.tu-bs.de>	<402AAC53.8060904@oucs.ox.ac.uk>
	<m3d68kvdqv.fsf@vvv.vsu.ru>
Message-ID: <402B65F6.2050907@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>



Vladimir Volovich wrote:
> 
> Maybe we can start creating a "repository of Makefiles" even for those
> packages which do/will not include those makefiles.
>
well, thats more or less what my sausage machine is :-}

it just needs formalizing and checking



-- 
Sebastian Rahtz      Information Manager
Oxford University Computing Services
13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431
From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk  Thu Feb 12 12:41:55 2004
From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz)
Date: Thu Feb 12 12:53:39 2004
Subject: [tex-live] texlive 2003 -- acronym package missing doc
In-Reply-To: <m38yj8vd68.fsf@vvv.vsu.ru>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0402120007410.14798-100000@pc52.ifw.ing.tu-bs.de>	<402AAC53.8060904@oucs.ox.ac.uk>
	<m3d68kvdqv.fsf@vvv.vsu.ru> <m38yj8vd68.fsf@vvv.vsu.ru>
Message-ID: <402B6683.5080903@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>



Vladimir Volovich wrote:
> 
> although, i agree that a metadata approach is better, i.e. there shall
> be a well-defined DTD for the TPM2

schema, please :-}

> and all new packages (or updates)
> to CTAN shall provide an XML with that metadata; then we can manually
> add it to older packages.

indeed. thats again on the lines of what the CTAN summit 
meeting last year agreed should happen. As ever, no-one has 
had time to implement it all.

-- 
Sebastian Rahtz      Information Manager
Oxford University Computing Services
13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431
From karl at freefriends.org  Thu Feb 12 16:01:54 2004
From: karl at freefriends.org (Karl Berry)
Date: Thu Feb 12 16:02:05 2004
Subject: [tex-live] Re: tex *live* packages [was: .. acronym package
	missing doc]
In-Reply-To: <402B43B0.8040405@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <200402121501.i1CF1sA27740@f7.net>

    stored in TPM2 .xml files

A Makefile target seems a lot easier and more flexible than XML,
although not as general.

    if I (or someone else) changes the sausage machine to read
    XML files, 

No change could be made wholesale, anyway.  Has to be incremental.
(If the XML file exists, use it, else fall back to current ad hoc method.)

    the job is to make sure they are right!

The script must do that.  The human part comes in in *fixing* the XML :).
From john at cs.york.ac.uk  Thu Feb 12 17:43:26 2004
From: john at cs.york.ac.uk (John Murdie)
Date: Thu Feb 12 17:47:28 2004
Subject: [tex-live] geometry.cfg
Message-ID: <1076604206.1435.17.camel@pc118>

$TEXLIVE7/texmf/tex/latex/newlfm/geometry.cfg had
\ExecuteOptions{letterpaper) which needs to be replaced with
\ExecuteOptions{a4paper}.

$TEXLIVE200309/texmf/tex/latex/geometry/geometry.cfg
had \ExecuteOptions{a4paper,dvips} commented out. It needs to be
uncommented.

Both the above for A4, of course.

John A. Murdie
Department of Computer Science
University of York
UK


From karl at freefriends.org  Thu Feb 12 19:10:46 2004
From: karl at freefriends.org (Karl Berry)
Date: Thu Feb 12 19:10:57 2004
Subject: [tex-live] texlive 2003 -- acronym package missing doc
In-Reply-To: <402AB128.3040805@oucs.ox.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <200402121810.i1CIAkQ02896@f7.net>

    >     move texmf tree 

What about things not under texmf, namely info, man, and binaries?

Maybe make texlive has to create a ./texlive (say) directory, with most
stuff being ./texlive/texmf ?
From staw at gust.org.pl  Fri Feb 13 04:27:44 2004
From: staw at gust.org.pl (Staszek Wawrykiewicz)
Date: Fri Feb 13 04:24:18 2004
Subject: [tex-live] Re: tex *live* packages [was: .. acronym package
	missing doc]
In-Reply-To: <402B40BD.6030308@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0402130347070.19916-100000@re86.internetdsl.tpnet.pl>

On Thu, 12 Feb 2004, Sebastian Rahtz wrote:

> > If the package contains .mf sources and/or type1 .pfb files, it belongs
> > to font stuff. So Hans would be happy using them also in ConTeXt...
> > 
> What if its primary job is to provide a LaTeX package,
> and adds a font with one character to support that?

Really exceptional ;-)

> > So packages still have to be tested and... corrected. Again and again
> > for every release.
> 
> yes, but the decisions taken must be recorded. otherwise you 
> have to retest all packages every time...

Uhm... You mean recording corrections after your sausage machine?
We have to rethink how it can be done, e.g.
1. new/updated package grabed from CTAN
2. you build it for TL using that mysterious machinery
3. after checking, I rebuild the package and of course rebuild .tpm file
 
I can keep diff file for old and new .tpm or describe the exception
in some words, but at the moment have no better idea... 

-- 
Staszek Wawrykiewicz
StaW@gust.org.pl


From te at dbs.uni-hannover.de  Fri Feb 13 04:51:48 2004
From: te at dbs.uni-hannover.de (Thomas Esser)
Date: Fri Feb 13 04:52:01 2004
Subject: [tex-live] dvips' search paths
Message-ID: <20040213035148.GA30249@dbs.uni-hannover.de>

I just have fixed dvips' search path, due to a "timeout" error of the
official maintainer(s). The changes are small (#4362), so if they
disagree, they can easily revert them.

Hope, that's ok...

Thomas
From te at dbs.uni-hannover.de  Fri Feb 13 05:09:22 2004
From: te at dbs.uni-hannover.de (Thomas Esser)
Date: Fri Feb 13 05:09:33 2004
Subject: [tex-live] texlive 2003 -- acronym package missing doc
In-Reply-To: <m3d68kvdqv.fsf@vvv.vsu.ru>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0402120007410.14798-100000@pc52.ifw.ing.tu-bs.de>
	<402AAC53.8060904@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <m3d68kvdqv.fsf@vvv.vsu.ru>
Message-ID: <20040213040922.GB27707@dbs.uni-hannover.de>

> Maybe we can start creating a "repository of Makefiles" even for those
> packages which do/will not include those makefiles.

That's exactly what I have in my texmfsrc tarball. To avoid packages
which already have Makefile's, I have given my Makefiles that name
Makefile.tetex. Today, I can count 130 of them.

I have the targets:
  update	update the directory from my local CTAN mirror on disk
  unpack	run the .ins files
  doc		process the documentation
  install	install into my "master" texmf tree
  clean		remove anything that does not belong to the package

> "Only" a few hundred of such Makefiles will solve the issue in
> full. One needs to go through the CTAN packages present on texlive,
> study it's installation instructions, and create a Makefile.
>
> As far as I remember, Thomas already has something like that for
> packages present in teTeX.

Right.

On the other hand, I think that the information contained in these
Makefiles should better be written in a more abstact way. Then, the
TeX community (or someone sponsored by some TeX user group) could write
a tool that processes the metata. This tool should take the following
into account:
  - tex distribution specifics (for comamnd names, location of target
    directories, etc.)
  - user preferences

Thomas
From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk  Fri Feb 13 10:27:30 2004
From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz)
Date: Fri Feb 13 10:39:19 2004
Subject: [tex-live] Re: tex *live* packages [was: .. acronym package
	missing doc]
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0402130347070.19916-100000@re86.internetdsl.tpnet.pl>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0402130347070.19916-100000@re86.internetdsl.tpnet.pl>
Message-ID: <402C9882.9000709@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>



Staszek Wawrykiewicz wrote:

> Uhm... You mean recording corrections after your sausage machine?
> We have to rethink how it can be done, e.g.
> 1. new/updated package grabed from CTAN
> 2. you build it for TL using that mysterious machinery
> 3. after checking, I rebuild the package and of course rebuild .tpm file
>  
> I can keep diff file for old and new .tpm or describe the exception
> in some words, but at the moment have no better idea... 

um. thats _really_ messy!

we should have a single source of metadata which we all update
-- 
Sebastian Rahtz      Information Manager
Oxford University Computing Services
13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431
From tjk at ams.org  Fri Feb 13 13:05:18 2004
From: tjk at ams.org (Thomas J. Kacvinsky)
Date: Fri Feb 13 13:05:45 2004
Subject: [tex-live] dvips' search paths
In-Reply-To: <20040213035148.GA30249@dbs.uni-hannover.de>
References: <20040213035148.GA30249@dbs.uni-hannover.de>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.53.0402130704040.29422@sun06.ams.org>

Yeah, one really needs to set a high TTL with me, anyway.
Soory about that Thomas, I said I would do something and
then got busy with other stuff.

I will try to get my texlive tree synced today and look
at the changes.

Tom

On Fri, 13 Feb 2004, Thomas Esser wrote:

> I just have fixed dvips' search path, due to a "timeout" error of the
> official maintainer(s). The changes are small (#4362), so if they
> disagree, they can easily revert them.
>
> Hope, that's ok...
>
> Thomas
> _______________________________________________
> TeX Live mailing list
> http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/tex-live
>
From h.harders at tu-bs.de  Fri Feb 13 13:21:38 2004
From: h.harders at tu-bs.de (Harald Harders)
Date: Fri Feb 13 13:21:50 2004
Subject: [tex-live] texlive 2003 -- acronym package missing doc
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0402121120430.18796-100000@pc52.ifw.ing.tu-bs.de>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0402131319560.28267-100000@pc52.ifw.ing.tu-bs.de>


> I will prepare one of my packages during the weekend. When I will have put
> it on CTAN, I will send an eMail to the list.

A few minutes ago, I have uploaded the updated packages numprint
(macros/latex/contrib/numprint) and babelbib
(biblio/bibtex/contrib/babelbib) to ftp.dante.de. They will hopefully be
installed within the next days. The mailinglist will not be informed, I
think.

Yours
Harald

-- 
Harald Harders                           Langer Kamp 8
Technische Universit?t Braunschweig      D-38106 Braunschweig
Institut f?r Werkstoffe                  Germany
E-Mail: h.harders@tu-bs.de               Tel: +49 (5 31) 3 91-3062
WWW   : http://www.ifw.tu-bs.de          Fax: +49 (5 31) 3 91-3058

From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk  Fri Feb 13 15:26:15 2004
From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz)
Date: Fri Feb 13 15:38:06 2004
Subject: [tex-live] updated texmf-dist
Message-ID: <402CDE87.5080700@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>

I have cleared most of the outstanding issues I had with the 
the texlive texmf-dist tree; any of you looking at it 
critically should sync and see if the issue is unresolved
-- 
Sebastian Rahtz      Information Manager
Oxford University Computing Services
13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431
From ftpmaint at alan.smcvt.edu  Fri Feb 13 16:30:36 2004
From: ftpmaint at alan.smcvt.edu (Jim Hefferon)
Date: Fri Feb 13 16:32:13 2004
Subject: [tex-live] Re: tex *live* packages [was: .. acronym package
	missing doc]
In-Reply-To: <402C9882.9000709@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk> (message from
	Sebastian Rahtz on Fri, 13 Feb 2004 09:27:30 +0000)
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0402130347070.19916-100000@re86.internetdsl.tpnet.pl>
	<402C9882.9000709@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <200402131530.i1DFUa206289@alan.smcvt.edu>

Sebastian, others,

   we should have a single source of metadata which we all update

That is not clear to me.  For instance, I understand the contention among
CTAN maintainers that there is not time to maintain a list of files, as
you have in your metadata.  (For instance, what to do about moving material?)
Further, other distributions might have other file lists, or other flags.
The other side of the coin is that I am interested in some metadata
(my by-function hobby horse) that you are not interested in.

It instead seems to me that there should be a central source of what I call
"summary" information, mostly Graham's work.  That should be maintained 
mostly by authors when they upload.

I have my current version of metadata, which would be a source of summary
material in my (current) plan at 
  ftp://joshua.smcvt.edu/pub/ctan
Is there anything not there that is needed by everyone?  Or am I missing 
some other point?

Jim

From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk  Fri Feb 13 16:24:24 2004
From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz)
Date: Fri Feb 13 16:36:18 2004
Subject: [tex-live] Re: tex *live* packages [was: .. acronym package
	missing doc]
In-Reply-To: <200402131530.i1DFUa206289@alan.smcvt.edu>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0402130347070.19916-100000@re86.internetdsl.tpnet.pl>
	<402C9882.9000709@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>
	<200402131530.i1DFUa206289@alan.smcvt.edu>
Message-ID: <402CEC28.9040305@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>



Jim Hefferon wrote:
> 
> That is not clear to me.  For instance, I understand the contention among
> CTAN maintainers that there is not time to maintain a list of files, as
> you have in your metadata. 

no, my TPM2 metadata does not have a list of files

> Further, other distributions might have other file lists, or other flags.
> The other side of the coin is that I am interested in some metadata
> (my by-function hobby horse) that you are not interested in.
thats in TPM2

> It instead seems to me that there should be a central source of what I call
> "summary" information, mostly Graham's work.  That should be maintained 
> mostly by authors when they upload.

well, parse "central" how you will; perhaps "single course" 
is the key thing

> I have my current version of metadata, which would be a source of summary
> material in my (current) plan at 
>   ftp://joshua.smcvt.edu/pub/ctan

oo er, thats quite a lot to take in. I'd have to read that 
carefully

-- 
Sebastian Rahtz      Information Manager
Oxford University Computing Services
13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431
From p.se at gmx.at  Fri Feb 13 16:39:59 2004
From: p.se at gmx.at (p.se@gmx.at)
Date: Fri Feb 13 16:41:58 2004
Subject: [tex-live] TeXLive2004 hyphen
Message-ID: <5207.1076686799@www53.gmx.net>

I am trying to install TeXLive 2004 on a Solaris system, from the CD
distributed by DANTE. I am requesting the recommended general installation,
but I deselected a few of the languages which are foreseen as the standard.
I am getting errors because lots of hyphenation files are requested which
are not available, for example catalan.
Content of TeX/texmf/tex/generic/config/language.dat is given below.

It looks like a bug that these files are not installed but then
requested.

I am also missing guidance how I can achieve proper access modes in
the various parts of the TeX directory tree. It seems not to be set
automatically.

Best regards
Petra

english          ushyph.tex
=usenglish
=USenglish
french           frhyph.tex
=patois
=francais
german           dehypht.tex
ngerman          dehyphn.tex

%!bahasa                inhyph.tex
%!basque                bahyph.tex
catalan         cahyph.tex
croatian        hrhyph.tex
czech           czhyph.tex
danish          dkhyph.tex
dutch           nehyph96.tex
estonian        ethyph.tex
finnish         fihyph.tex
%!galician      gahyph.tex
greek            grphyph.tex
hungarian       huhyph.tex
italian         ithyph.tex
latin           lahyph.tex
%!magyar                huhyph.tex
mongolian       mnhyph.tex
norwegian       nohyph.tex
=norsk
polish          plhyph.tex
portuguese      pthyph.tex
=portuges
romanian        rohyph.tex
russian         ruhyphen.tex
slovene         sihyph.tex
%!turkish       trhyph.tex
serbocroat      shhyph.tex
slovak          skhyph.tex
spanish         eshyph.tex
=espanol
swedish         svhyph.tex
ukenglish       gbhyph.tex
=UKenglish
=british
ukrainian       ukrhyph.tex
welsh           cyhyph.tex
%
dumylang       dumyhyph.tex   % for testing a new language.
nohyphenation  zerohyph.tex   % a language with no patterns at all.

-- 
GMX ProMail (250 MB Mailbox, 50 FreeSMS, Virenschutz, 2,99 EUR/Monat...)
jetzt 3 Monate GRATIS + 3x DER SPIEGEL +++ http://www.gmx.net/derspiegel +++

From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk  Fri Feb 13 16:54:45 2004
From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz)
Date: Fri Feb 13 17:06:38 2004
Subject: [tex-live] TeXLive2004 hyphen
In-Reply-To: <5207.1076686799@www53.gmx.net>
References: <5207.1076686799@www53.gmx.net>
Message-ID: <402CF345.4010904@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>



p.se@gmx.at wrote:
> I am trying to install TeXLive 2004 on a Solaris system, from the CD
> distributed by DANTE. I am requesting the recommended general installation,
> but I deselected a few of the languages which are foreseen as the standard.
> I am getting errors because lots of hyphenation files are requested which
> are not available, for example catalan.
> Content of TeX/texmf/tex/generic/config/language.dat is given below.

you shoild have a language.dat elsewhere in a VARTEXMF 
directory, which gets built at install time based on 
language choices

can you check on your system to see if there is another file 
of the same name? which should be found first

-- 
Sebastian Rahtz      Information Manager
Oxford University Computing Services
13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431
From p.se at gmx.at  Fri Feb 13 17:26:13 2004
From: p.se at gmx.at (p.se@gmx.at)
Date: Fri Feb 13 17:26:25 2004
Subject: [tex-live] TeXLive2004 hyphen
Message-ID: <18187.1076689573@www53.gmx.net>

> > I am getting errors because lots of hyphenation files are requested
> which
> > are not available, for example catalan.
> > Content of TeX/texmf/tex/generic/config/language.dat is given below.
> 
> you shoild have a language.dat elsewhere in a VARTEXMF 
> directory, which gets built at install time based on 
> language choices
> 
> can you check on your system to see if there is another file 
> of the same name? which should be found first

Yes there is texmf/source/generic/babel/language.dat and this one
has the expected content, but obviously it is not read during
the installation.

Best regards
Petra

-- 
GMX ProMail (250 MB Mailbox, 50 FreeSMS, Virenschutz, 2,99 EUR/Monat...)
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From staw at gust.org.pl  Fri Feb 13 17:43:35 2004
From: staw at gust.org.pl (Staszek Wawrykiewicz)
Date: Fri Feb 13 17:39:56 2004
Subject: [tex-live] TeXLive2004 hyphen
In-Reply-To: <5207.1076686799@www53.gmx.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0402131736050.20857-100000@re86.internetdsl.tpnet.pl>

On Fri, 13 Feb 2004 p.se@gmx.at wrote:

> I am trying to install TeXLive 2004 on a Solaris system, from the CD
> distributed by DANTE. I am requesting the recommended general installation,
> but I deselected a few of the languages which are foreseen as the standard.
> I am getting errors because lots of hyphenation files are requested which
> are not available, for example catalan.

Seems you have deselected tex-langspanish collection...
(should we separate catalan into another collection?)

> Content of TeX/texmf/tex/generic/config/language.dat is given below.

When installing any language stuff, language.dat is build 
in texmf-var/tex/generic/config/

Please run
kpsewhich language.dat
to see which file is taken

Anyway you can add ane missing/needed collection:
sh install-pkg.sh --collection=tex-langspanish
 
-- 
Staszek Wawrykiewicz
StaW@gust.org.pl


From ftpmaint at alan.smcvt.edu  Fri Feb 13 17:42:12 2004
From: ftpmaint at alan.smcvt.edu (Jim Hefferon)
Date: Fri Feb 13 17:41:47 2004
Subject: [tex-live] Re: tex *live* packages [was: .. acronym package
	missing doc]
In-Reply-To: <402CEC28.9040305@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk> (message from
	Sebastian Rahtz on Fri, 13 Feb 2004 15:24:24 +0000)
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0402130347070.19916-100000@re86.internetdsl.tpnet.pl>
	<402C9882.9000709@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>
	<200402131530.i1DFUa206289@alan.smcvt.edu>
	<402CEC28.9040305@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <200402131642.i1DGgCO09937@alan.smcvt.edu>

   Jim Hefferon wrote:
   > 
   > That is not clear to me.  For instance, I understand the contention among
   > CTAN maintainers that there is not time to maintain a list of files, as
   > you have in your metadata. 

   no, my TPM2 metadata does not have a list of files

?  I guess that I do not understand the semantics of Build, Run, etc.  Here 
is overpic.tpm from the latest TL.  Help me out; what am I misunderstanding?
=======================
!DOCTYPE rdf:RDF SYSTEM "../tpm.dtd">
<rdf:RDF xmlns:rdf="http://www.w3.org/1999/02/22-rdf-syntax-ns#" xmlns:TPM="http://texlive.dante.de/">
  <rdf:Description about="http://texlive.dante.de/texlive/package/overpic.zip">
    <TPM:Name>overpic</TPM:Name>
    <TPM:Type>package</TPM:Type>
    <TPM:Date>2003/08/22 17:04:22</TPM:Date>
    <TPM:Version></TPM:Version>
    <TPM:Creator>rahtz</TPM:Creator>
    <TPM:Title>
Combine LaTeX commands over included graphics.
    </TPM:Title>
    <TPM:Size>27982</TPM:Size>
    <TPM:Description>
The overpic environment is a cross between the LaTeX picture
environment and the \includegraphics command of graphicx. The resulting picture
environment has the same dimensions as the included eps
graphic. LaTeX commands can be placed on the graphic at
defined positions. A grid for orientation is available.
    </TPM:Description>
    <TPM:Build>
      <TPM:RunPatterns>
texmf/tex/latex/overpic/*
texmf/tpm/package/overpic.tpm
      </TPM:RunPatterns>
      <TPM:DocPatterns>texmf/doc/latex/overpic/*</TPM:DocPatterns>
    </TPM:Build>
    <TPM:RunFiles size="4348">
texmf/tex/latex/overpic/overpic.sty
texmf/tpm/package/overpic.tpm
    </TPM:RunFiles>
    <TPM:DocFiles size="23634">
texmf/doc/latex/overpic/README
texmf/doc/latex/overpic/README.de
texmf/doc/latex/overpic/golfer.ps.gz
texmf/doc/latex/overpic/opic-abs.dvi
texmf/doc/latex/overpic/opic-abs.tex
texmf/doc/latex/overpic/opic-rel.dvi
texmf/doc/latex/overpic/opic-rel.tex
    </TPM:DocFiles>
    <TPM:Provides>package/overpic</TPM:Provides>
  </rdf:Description>
</rdf:RDF>                                                                     ==================================

   > Further, other distributions might have other file lists, or other flags.
   > The other side of the coin is that I am interested in some metadata
   > (my by-function hobby horse) that you are not interested in.
   thats in TPM2

   > It instead seems to me that there should be a central source of what I call
   > "summary" information, mostly Graham's work.  That should be maintained 
   > mostly by authors when they upload.

   well, parse "central" how you will; perhaps "single course" 
   is the key thing

By "central" I mean that it would live on CTAN (and be editable by you also,
for instance).  Is that what "single course" means?

   > I have my current version of metadata, which would be a source of summary
   > material in my (current) plan at 
   >   ftp://joshua.smcvt.edu/pub/ctan

   oo er, thats quite a lot to take in. I'd have to read that 
   carefully

Oh yes, of course; sorry.  It is an adaptation of TPM2, really.

Jim

From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk  Fri Feb 13 17:49:48 2004
From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz)
Date: Fri Feb 13 18:01:39 2004
Subject: [tex-live] Re: tex *live* packages [was: .. acronym package
	missing doc]
In-Reply-To: <200402131642.i1DGgCO09937@alan.smcvt.edu>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0402130347070.19916-100000@re86.internetdsl.tpnet.pl>
	<402C9882.9000709@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>
	<200402131530.i1DFUa206289@alan.smcvt.edu>
	<402CEC28.9040305@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>
	<200402131642.i1DGgCO09937@alan.smcvt.edu>
Message-ID: <402D002C.10408@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>



Jim Hefferon wrote:
> 
> ?  I guess that I do not understand the semantics of Build, Run, etc.  Here 
> is overpic.tpm from the latest TL.  Help me out; what am I misunderstanding?

the difference between TPM and TPM2. the thing you quote is 
the old TPM used in TL today. TPM2 is a more general 
metadata schema which does NOT include file lists


Build, Run etc are instructions to me on how to make packages.

-- 
Sebastian Rahtz      Information Manager
Oxford University Computing Services
13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431
From p.se at gmx.at  Fri Feb 13 18:10:30 2004
From: p.se at gmx.at (p.se@gmx.at)
Date: Fri Feb 13 18:10:49 2004
Subject: [tex-live] TeXLive2004 hyphen
Message-ID: <10612.1076692230@www53.gmx.net>

> Seems you have deselected tex-langspanish collection...
> (should we separate catalan into another collection?)

Yes, I did.

> When installing any language stuff, language.dat is build 
> in texmf-var/tex/generic/config/

yes it's there and it's ok as I wrote already

> Please run
> kpsewhich language.dat
> to see which file is taken

obviously the wrong one. kpsewhich is not available as the installation
did not complete as it should.
 
> Anyway you can add ane missing/needed collection:
> sh install-pkg.sh --collection=tex-langspanish

I would have to install a lot of languages, not just spanish,
and I only want the most relevant ones because there is not
much disk space available!

I could of course replace the babel language.dat by the 
specific one. How would I then repeat the necessary parts
of the inst script?

Regards
Petra

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From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk  Fri Feb 13 18:09:46 2004
From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz)
Date: Fri Feb 13 18:21:37 2004
Subject: [tex-live] TeXLive2004 hyphen
In-Reply-To: <10612.1076692230@www53.gmx.net>
References: <10612.1076692230@www53.gmx.net>
Message-ID: <402D04DA.7000803@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>



p.se@gmx.at wrote:

> 
> obviously the wrong one. kpsewhich is not available as the installation
> did not complete as it should.

It sounds like this is the root of the problem. If you do 
not have "kpsewhich", you do not have a running TeX KLive....

-- 
Sebastian Rahtz      Information Manager
Oxford University Computing Services
13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431
From ms at artcom-gmbh.de  Fri Feb 13 18:23:09 2004
From: ms at artcom-gmbh.de (Martin =?iso-8859-1?Q?Schr=F6der?=)
Date: Fri Feb 13 18:24:46 2004
Subject: [tex-live] TeXLive2004 hyphen
In-Reply-To: <18187.1076689573@www53.gmx.net>
References: <18187.1076689573@www53.gmx.net>
Message-ID: <20040213172307.GM25331@artcom8.artcom-gmbh.de>

Please stop crossposting to tex-d-l.

Thanks
        Martin
-- 
               Martin Schr?der, ms@artcom-gmbh.de
     ArtCom GmbH, Lise-Meitner-Str 5, 28359 Bremen, Germany
          Voice +49 421 20419-44 / Fax +49 421 20419-10
                    http://www.artcom-gmbh.de
From ftpmaint at alan.smcvt.edu  Fri Feb 13 18:58:45 2004
From: ftpmaint at alan.smcvt.edu (Jim Hefferon)
Date: Fri Feb 13 18:58:22 2004
Subject: [tex-live] Re: tex *live* packages [was: .. acronym package
	missing doc]
In-Reply-To: <402D002C.10408@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk> (message from
	Sebastian Rahtz on Fri, 13 Feb 2004 16:49:48 +0000)
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0402130347070.19916-100000@re86.internetdsl.tpnet.pl>
	<402C9882.9000709@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>
	<200402131530.i1DFUa206289@alan.smcvt.edu>
	<402CEC28.9040305@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>
	<200402131642.i1DGgCO09937@alan.smcvt.edu>
	<402D002C.10408@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <200402131758.i1DHwjd19429@alan.smcvt.edu>

Sebastain,

   the difference between TPM and TPM2. the thing you quote is 
   the old TPM used in TL today. TPM2 is a more general 
   metadata schema which does NOT include file lists

   Build, Run etc are instructions to me on how to make packages.

Ah, I didn't get that.  Thanks,
Jim 

From itayf at fhcrc.org  Sat Feb 14 16:35:02 2004
From: itayf at fhcrc.org (Itay Furman)
Date: Sat Feb 14 16:35:21 2004
Subject: [tex-live] Re: tex *live* packages [was: .. acronym package missing
	doc]
In-Reply-To: <402B43B0.8040405@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0402140715000.11585-100000@cezanne.fhcrc.org>


On Thu, 12 Feb 2004, Sebastian Rahtz wrote:

> 
> depends how good a programmer you are. my idea is to take
> the current Perl script and simplify it considerably by 
> taking out all the special cases. This information would be 
> stored in TPM2 .xml files. When the script runs on package 
> X, it reads X.xml, which tells it the parameters for the job 
> (is it a  latex package, a font package, etc; what is the 
> doc file; which .ins file to run).
> 

I had 3 deadlines converging and could not respond earlier.

I would like to try working on that.
If this is OK with you, then let me know how we proceed.

	Thanks,
	Itay



From sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk  Sat Feb 14 18:06:24 2004
From: sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz)
Date: Sat Feb 14 19:07:06 2004
Subject: [tex-live] cry havoc and let loose the dogs of war
Message-ID: <402E5590.70505@oucs.ox.ac.uk>

I have put the first experimental .iso images at 
http://www.tug.org/texlive/Images/.
The only uptodate binaries on here are for Linux/386, but perhaps
someone would like to check the install programs still work? otherwise,
the difference between this and TL2003 is

- fixed or upgraded about 100 packages
- changed from texmf to texmf-dist for the main tree
- implementation of new TDS standards  for font map files etc
- new beta-release of pdftex etc

the eagle-eyed will notice that the demo CD is 744 megabyes,
so we can go back to the business of  arguing about whether that
release is still needed, or discuss what to omit from it.

sebastian
From sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk  Sat Feb 14 18:28:11 2004
From: sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz)
Date: Sat Feb 14 19:28:55 2004
Subject: [tex-live] Re: tex *live* packages [was: .. acronym package missing
	doc]
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0402140715000.11585-100000@cezanne.fhcrc.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0402140715000.11585-100000@cezanne.fhcrc.org>
Message-ID: <402E5AAB.4050802@oucs.ox.ac.uk>

Itay Furman wrote:

>
>>. my idea is to take
>>the current Perl script and simplify it considerably by 
>>taking out all the special cases. This information would be 
>>stored in TPM2 .xml files. When the script runs on package 
>>X, it reads X.xml, which tells it the parameters for the job 
>>(is it a  latex package, a font package, etc; what is the 
>>doc file; which .ins file to run).
>>
>I would like to try working on that.
>If this is OK with you, then let me know how we proceed.
>
>  
>

grab a Perforce client from www.perforce.com
and point it at sun.dante.de:1666, following
the Perforce "quick start" instructions. make yourself
a client spec, and pull down

 //depot/Build/cdbuild/ctan2tds.pl

then grab your yourself a package from CTAN,
and see what happens you do

  perl ctan2tds.pl $directoryname

where "directoryname"  is where the CTAN package is
living.

reiterate 15 times in increasing frustration until it works. Ask
me why when it fails :-}

OK, now you are at the same position as me; and you
can start taking apart ctan2tds.pl and try to make
it read XML config files instead of all its hard-wired specialcase
tables.

does this make sense?

sebastian
From preining at logic.at  Sat Feb 14 19:17:28 2004
From: preining at logic.at (Norbert Preining)
Date: Sat Feb 14 19:50:19 2004
Subject: [tex-live] cry havoc and let loose the dogs of war
In-Reply-To: <402E5590.70505@oucs.ox.ac.uk>
References: <402E5590.70505@oucs.ox.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <20040214181728.GC26043@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at>

Hi Sebastian, hi List!

On Sam, 14 Feb 2004, Sebastian Rahtz wrote:
> I have put the first experimental .iso images at 
> http://www.tug.org/texlive/Images/.

Wow, we start early this year, but this is good.

> The only uptodate binaries on here are for Linux/386, but perhaps

Linux/alpha should not be too bad, I think I uploaded quite recent
binaries.

> - fixed or upgraded about 100 packages
> - changed from texmf to texmf-dist for the main tree
> - implementation of new TDS standards  for font map files etc
> - new beta-release of pdftex etc

I am working with the Master/texmf tree at several places without
problem. Only on the university (with 20+ computers) I am still
hesitating to make the big p4 sync which does the texmf-dist stuff, but
after I have finished my EU application for a Marie Curie Grant I will
have time, say in 2 days.

Best wishes

Norbert

From sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk  Sat Feb 14 19:02:20 2004
From: sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz)
Date: Sat Feb 14 20:03:18 2004
Subject: [tex-live] cry havoc and let loose the dogs of war
In-Reply-To: <20040214181728.GC26043@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at>
References: <402E5590.70505@oucs.ox.ac.uk>
	<20040214181728.GC26043@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at>
Message-ID: <402E62AC.1000809@oucs.ox.ac.uk>

Norbert Preining wrote:

>Linux/alpha should not be too bad, I think I uploaded quite recent
>binaries.
>
>  
>
careful. you need dvips from yesterday or so,
to work with the current tree

>I am working with the Master/texmf tree at several places without
>problem. Only on the university (with 20+ computers) I am still
>hesitating to make the big p4 sync which does the texmf-dist stuff
>

tread carefully....

sebastian
From preining at logic.at  Sun Feb 15 00:39:29 2004
From: preining at logic.at (Norbert Preining)
Date: Sun Feb 15 00:39:41 2004
Subject: [tex-live] cry havoc and let loose the dogs of war
In-Reply-To: <402E62AC.1000809@oucs.ox.ac.uk>
References: <402E5590.70505@oucs.ox.ac.uk>
	<20040214181728.GC26043@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at>
	<402E62AC.1000809@oucs.ox.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <20040214233929.GA16496@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at>

On Sam, 14 Feb 2004, Sebastian Rahtz wrote:
> >Linux/alpha should not be too bad, I think I uploaded quite recent
> >binaries.
> >
> careful. you need dvips from yesterday or so,
> to work with the current tree

Fortunately all our `user computers' are i386/linux, and I also compile
the binaries myself for alpha and i386.

I couldn't find a description of the change made to dvips, I guess it is
about TEXCONFIG and where to find map files, isn't it? The perforce
change description was a bit short.


> >I am working with the Master/texmf tree at several places without
> >problem. Only on the university (with 20+ computers) I am still
> >hesitating to make the big p4 sync which does the texmf-dist stuff
> 
> tread carefully....

I am used to problems, nobody will kill me here, I am not paid at all,
neither is the second admin -- that's live on the university.

Best wishes

Norbert

From Fabrice.Popineau at supelec.fr  Sun Feb 15 13:49:21 2004
From: Fabrice.Popineau at supelec.fr (Fabrice Popineau)
Date: Sun Feb 15 13:50:12 2004
Subject: [tex-live] Problems installing doublestroke ps-1 fonts and updmap
In-Reply-To: <20040212061845.GB22082@dbs.uni-hannover.de> (Thomas Esser's
	message of "Thu, 12 Feb 2004 07:18:45 +0100")
References: <5.2.0.9.2.20040211122126.00a1c080@213.165.64.20>
	<Pine.LNX.4.44.0402112125490.18143-100000@re86.internetdsl.tpnet.pl>
	<20040212061845.GB22082@dbs.uni-hannover.de>
Message-ID: <ptcgzewe.fsf@esemetz.metz.supelec.fr>


>> updmap --enable MixedMap=dstroke.map
> Hm... That means that the windows version is not compatible to my
> version: --enable maptype mapfile add or enable a Map or MixedMap

> Fabrice?

I have fixed that for the next release. Sorry, I missed that.

Fabrice

From Fabrice.Popineau at supelec.fr  Sun Feb 15 13:55:04 2004
From: Fabrice.Popineau at supelec.fr (Fabrice Popineau)
Date: Sun Feb 15 13:56:01 2004
Subject: [tex-live] Missing packages selection tree when updating fptex
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0402120841590.11128-100000@singa.math.nus.edu.sg>
	(Helmer
	Aslaksen's message of "Thu, 12 Feb 2004 08:43:06 +0800 (SGT)")
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0402120841590.11128-100000@singa.math.nus.edu.sg>
Message-ID: <isi8zemv.fsf@esemetz.metz.supelec.fr>

> Hi guys, I just installed TL2003 on WinXP notebook. No problem.

> I then went to the fpTeX home page and downloaded the updated TeXsetup
> file and followed the instructions.

> When I came to the packages selection screen and clicked on texlive to
> open the tree, the screen was mostly blank, with just some items
> available. When I tried to click on some of those that were available,
> I got an error message about "The parameter is incorrect".

What were the ones available ? Send me the setup-*.log files from your
attempts to upgrade please.


-- 
Fabrice Popineau
------------------------
e-mail:       Fabrice.Popineau@supelec.fr  |  The difference between theory 
voice-mail:   +33 (0) 387764715            |  and practice, is that
surface-mail: Supelec, 2 rue E. Belin,     |  theoretically,
	      F-57070 Metz 	           |  there is no difference !

From Fabrice.Popineau at supelec.fr  Sun Feb 15 16:06:05 2004
From: Fabrice.Popineau at supelec.fr (Fabrice Popineau)
Date: Sun Feb 15 16:07:04 2004
Subject: [tex-live] tpm fixes
Message-ID: <ad3kz8ki.fsf@esemetz.metz.supelec.fr>


- the mattens package has something wrong : the .sty file is located
under texmf-dist/source/latex/mattens/tex/latex/mattens/

- mathematica  package has files in fonts/.../mma/ (mma should be
mathematica).

- the files in texmf-dist/doc/latex/bardiag/src/* are duplicated in
texmf-dist/doc/latex/bardiag/exampes/src/*

- ihmo, no texmf-dist/ should occur in the binary/*.tpm files, because
those packages result directly from the source build tree. In the case
of binary/bin-dvipsk.tpm for example, that may require to split it
in 2 parts : one made of the files installed when building dvipsk,
another put is package/dvipsk made of the other support files. What do
you think ?

- in the same area, what to do with texmf-dist/fonts/map/dvips/updmap/*
files? Do they belong to binary/bin-dvipsk or binary/bin-tetex ? Imho,
they belong to the same package updmap executable belongs to.

I have appended the list of files that are still not well placed in tpm
files after my updates ( "p4 sync //depot/Master/texmf-dist/tpm/..."
recommended!)

-- 
Fabrice

Checking coverage:
Found 48218 files in tpm files.
*****************************************
Files found multiple times in tpm files :
*****************************************
*****************************************
Files in texmf tree not in tpm files :
man/man1/amslatex.1
man/man1/slitex.1
texmf-dist/doc/latex/bardiag/src/10.tex
texmf-dist/doc/latex/bardiag/src/1a.tex
texmf-dist/doc/latex/bardiag/src/1b.tex
texmf-dist/doc/latex/bardiag/src/2a.tex
texmf-dist/doc/latex/bardiag/src/2b.tex
texmf-dist/doc/latex/bardiag/src/3.tex
texmf-dist/doc/latex/bardiag/src/4.tex
texmf-dist/doc/latex/bardiag/src/5.tex
texmf-dist/doc/latex/bardiag/src/6.tex
texmf-dist/doc/latex/bardiag/src/7.tex
texmf-dist/doc/latex/bardiag/src/8.tex
texmf-dist/doc/latex/bardiag/src/9.tex
texmf-dist/fonts/map/dvipdfm/tetex/cm-dvipdfm-fix.map
texmf-dist/ls-R
texmf-dist/source/latex/mattens/tex/latex/mattens/mattens.sty
texmf-dist/tex/plain/config/etex.ini
texmf-dist/tex/plain/config/language.def
texmf-dist/tex/plain/config/pdfetex.ini
texmf-dist/tex/plain/config/pdftex.ini
texmf-dist/tex/plain/cweb/pdfXcwebmac.tex
texmf-dist/tex/plain/cweb/pdfcwebmac.tex
texmf-dist/tex/plain/cweb/pdfdcwebmac.tex
texmf-dist/tex/plain/cweb/pdffcwebmac.tex
texmf-dist/tex/plain/cweb/pdficwebmac.tex
texmf-dist/tex/plain/cweb/pdfwebmac.tex
texmf-dist/tex/plain/etex/etex.src
texmf-dist/tex/plain/etex/etexdefs.lib
texmf-dist/tex/plain/mltex.ini
texmf/bibtex/csf/88591lat.csf
texmf/bibtex/csf/88591sca.csf
texmf/bibtex/csf/ascii.csf
texmf/bibtex/csf/cp437lat.csf
texmf/bibtex/csf/cp850lat.csf
texmf/bibtex/csf/cp850sca.csf
texmf/bibtex/csf/cp866rus.csf
texmf/doc/bibtex8/00readme.txt
texmf/doc/bibtex8/HISTORY
texmf/doc/bibtex8/csfile.txt
texmf/doc/bibtex8/file_id.diz
texmf/doc/tetex/TETEXDOC.dvi
texmf/doc/tetex/TETEXDOC.pdf
texmf/doc/tetex/teTeX-FAQ
texmf/dvips/base/color.pro
texmf/dvips/base/crop.pro
texmf/dvips/base/finclude.pro
texmf/dvips/base/hps.pro
texmf/dvips/base/special.pro
texmf/dvips/base/tex.pro
texmf/dvips/base/texc.pro
texmf/dvips/base/texps.pro
texmf/dvips/gsftopk/render.ps
texmf/dvips/psutils/md68_0.ps
texmf/dvips/psutils/md71_0.ps
texmf/ls-R
texmf/omega/ocp/char2uni/inutf8.ocp
texmf/omega/otp/char2uni/inutf8.otp
texmf/tex4ht/base/tex4ht.env
texmf/texconfig/README
texmf/texconfig/g/generic
texmf/texconfig/generic
texmf/texconfig/v/vt100
texmf/texconfig/x/xterm
texmf/xdvi/xdvi.cfg
usergrps/README
usergrps/TUG/aims_ben.html
*****************************************
Files in tpm files not in texmf tree :
*****************************************
*****************************************

From sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk  Sun Feb 15 22:48:29 2004
From: sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz)
Date: Sun Feb 15 23:48:53 2004
Subject: [tex-live] Re: tpm fixes
In-Reply-To: <ad3kz8ki.fsf@esemetz.metz.supelec.fr>
References: <ad3kz8ki.fsf@esemetz.metz.supelec.fr>
Message-ID: <402FE92D.1010009@oucs.ox.ac.uk>

Fabrice Popineau wrote:

>- the mattens package has something wrong : the .sty file is located
>under texmf-dist/source/latex/mattens/tex/latex/mattens/
>  
>
killed it. I cant be doing with packages like that

>- mathematica  package has files in fonts/.../mma/ (mma should be
>mathematica).
>
>  
>
fixed

>- the files in texmf-dist/doc/latex/bardiag/src/* are duplicated in
>texmf-dist/doc/latex/bardiag/exampes/src/*
>
>  
>
fixed

>- ihmo, no texmf-dist/ should occur in the binary/*.tpm files, because
>those packages result directly from the source build tree. In the case
>of binary/bin-dvipsk.tpm for example, that may require to split it
>in 2 parts : one made of the files installed when building dvipsk,
>another put is package/dvipsk made of the other support files. What do
>you think ?
>
>  
>
I fear it is true. but I cannot face fixing it tonight....

>- in the same area, what to do with texmf-dist/fonts/map/dvips/updmap/*
>files? Do they belong to binary/bin-dvipsk or binary/bin-tetex ? Imho,
>they belong to the same package updmap executable belongs to.
>
>  
>
but they are generated by the user, surely?

sebastsian


From sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk  Sun Feb 15 23:41:57 2004
From: sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz)
Date: Mon Feb 16 00:42:23 2004
Subject: [tex-live] compressed .afm files, and Makefiles
Message-ID: <402FF5B5.40500@oucs.ox.ac.uk>

I have undone the compression of .afm files on TeX Live. This was done
to save space, but as we now have a compressed distribution and a DVD 
distribution, this
only affects the demo distribution. That has its own space problems 
which are best
dealt with at the package level.

all in the cause of keeping things simple.

I can also report that my sausage machine now follows Makefiles with
a "texlive" target in package distributions. Thanks to Harald for putting up
numprint to test this.

sebastian

From itayf at fhcrc.org  Mon Feb 16 07:42:13 2004
From: itayf at fhcrc.org (Itay Furman)
Date: Mon Feb 16 07:42:28 2004
Subject: [tex-live] Re: tex *live* packages [was: .. acronym package missing
	doc]
In-Reply-To: <402E5AAB.4050802@oucs.ox.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0402152238210.23976-100000@cezanne.fhcrc.org>


On Sat, 14 Feb 2004, Sebastian Rahtz wrote:

> Itay Furman wrote:
> 
> >
> >>. my idea is to take
> >>the current Perl script and simplify it considerably by 
> >>taking out all the special cases. This information would be 
> >>stored in TPM2 .xml files. When the script runs on package 
> >>X, it reads X.xml, which tells it the parameters for the job 
> >>(is it a  latex package, a font package, etc; what is the 
> >>doc file; which .ins file to run).
> >>
> >I would like to try working on that.
> >If this is OK with you, then let me know how we proceed.
> >
> >  

...


> reiterate 15 times in increasing frustration until it works. Ask
> me why when it fails :-}
> 
> OK, now you are at the same position as me; and you

I guess it will take more than 15 iteration ...

> can start taking apart ctan2tds.pl and try to make
> it read XML config files instead of all its hard-wired specialcase
> tables.
> 
> does this make sense?
> 

So far yes. Let's what happens when I open Pandora's Box ... :-)

	Itay


From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk  Mon Feb 16 14:45:25 2004
From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz)
Date: Mon Feb 16 14:57:02 2004
Subject: [tex-live] test .iso images
Message-ID: <4030C975.4060001@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>

Please note that only the ones I made today are any good. If 
you collected one in the last few days, grab again now.

another slew of updates went in yesterday and today
-- 
Sebastian Rahtz      Information Manager
Oxford University Computing Services
13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431
From mathelmr at math.nus.edu.sg  Mon Feb 16 14:07:54 2004
From: mathelmr at math.nus.edu.sg (Helmer Aslaksen)
Date: Mon Feb 16 15:18:45 2004
Subject: [tex-live] Missing packages selection tree when updating fptex
In-Reply-To: <isi8zemv.fsf@esemetz.metz.supelec.fr>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0402160941150.13065-200003@singa.math.nus.edu.sg>

Hi Fabrice,

Thanks for your reply!

I'm including some screenshots to show what it looks like.

I've attached the most recent log file. I usually end up cancelling, but
if I hit next without selecting anything, that is what I get. Do you need
to see the logfile from my initial installations?

Helmer

On Sun, 15 Feb 2004, Fabrice Popineau wrote:

> > Hi guys, I just installed TL2003 on WinXP notebook. No problem.
> 
> > I then went to the fpTeX home page and downloaded the updated TeXsetup
> > file and followed the instructions.
> 
> > When I came to the packages selection screen and clicked on texlive to
> > open the tree, the screen was mostly blank, with just some items
> > available. When I tried to click on some of those that were available,
> > I got an error message about "The parameter is incorrect".
> 
> What were the ones available ? Send me the setup-*.log files from your
> attempts to upgrade please.

-- 
Helmer ASLAKSEN
Department of Mathematics
National University of Singapore
Singapore 117543
Singapore

<aslaksen@math.nus.edu.sg>
<www.math.nus.edu.sg/aslaksen/>

Phone: +65 6874 2746
Fax: +65 6779 5452

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TeXLive 8.0 Setup Wizard Report



Date: Monday, February 16, 2004

Time: 21:04:20

OS   Version: Windows version 5.1 (Build 2600)


Service Pack 1.0


Identified by TeXSetup as 9.




DLLs Versions:

comctl32.dll: version 5.82.2800

shell32.dll: version 6.0.2800

shlwapi.dll: version 6.0.2800

shdocvw.dll: version 6.0.2800



The user is a power user or an administrator.



	Source	    Dir: C:\DOCUME~1\HELMER~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\



	Root	    Dir: C:\Program Files\TeXLive



	Main  Texmf Dir: C:\Program Files\TeXLive\texmf



	Local Texmf Dir: C:\Program Files\TeXLive\texmf-local



	Extra Texmf Dir: 



	Home  Texmf Dir: 



	Var   Texmf Dir: C:\Program Files\TeXLive\texmf-var



	Var   Fonts Dir: C:\Program Files\TeXLive\texmf-var\fonts



Selected Packages:

Changing permissions...

Creating C:\Program Files\TeXLive directory and granting everyone read access to it.

Creating C:\Program Files\TeXLive\texmf-var directory and granting everyone full access to it.

Creating C:\PROGRA~1\TeXLive\temp directory and granting everyone full access to it.

Setting temporarily TEMP = C:\PROGRA~1\TeXLive\temp

Deleted file C:\DOCUME~1\HELMER~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\texmf\tpm/binary/bin-amstex.tpm

Deleted file C:\DOCUME~1\HELMER~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\texmf\tpm/binary/bin-bibtex.tpm

Deleted file C:\DOCUME~1\HELMER~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\texmf\tpm/binary/bin-bibtex8.tpm

Deleted file C:\DOCUME~1\HELMER~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\texmf\tpm/binary/bin-bmeps.tpm

Deleted file C:\DOCUME~1\HELMER~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\texmf\tpm/binary/bin-bzip2.tpm

Deleted file C:\DOCUME~1\HELMER~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\texmf\tpm/binary/bin-chktex.tpm

Deleted file C:\DOCUME~1\HELMER~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\texmf\tpm/binary/bin-cjkutils.tpm

Deleted file C:\DOCUME~1\HELMER~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\texmf\tpm/binary/bin-context.tpm

Deleted file C:\DOCUME~1\HELMER~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\texmf\tpm/binary/bin-cslatex.tpm

Deleted file C:\DOCUME~1\HELMER~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\texmf\tpm/binary/bin-csplain.tpm

Deleted file C:\DOCUME~1\HELMER~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\texmf\tpm/binary/bin-cweb.tpm

Deleted file C:\DOCUME~1\HELMER~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\texmf\tpm/binary/bin-cyrillic.tpm

Deleted file C:\DOCUME~1\HELMER~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\texmf\tpm/binary/bin-detex.tpm

Deleted file C:\DOCUME~1\HELMER~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\texmf\tpm/binary/bin-devnag.tpm

Deleted file C:\DOCUME~1\HELMER~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\texmf\tpm/binary/bin-dialog.tpm

Deleted file C:\DOCUME~1\HELMER~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\texmf\tpm/binary/bin-dtl.tpm

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Deleted file C:\DOCUME~1\HELMER~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\texmf\tpm/binary/bin-dviljk.tpm

Deleted file C:\DOCUME~1\HELMER~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\texmf\tpm/binary/bin-dvipdfm-static.tpm

Deleted file C:\DOCUME~1\HELMER~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\texmf\tpm/binary/bin-dvipdfm.tpm

Deleted file C:\DOCUME~1\HELMER~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\texmf\tpm/binary/bin-dvipdfmx.tpm

Deleted file C:\DOCUME~1\HELMER~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\texmf\tpm/binary/bin-dvipsk-static.tpm

Deleted file C:\DOCUME~1\HELMER~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\texmf\tpm/binary/bin-dvipsk.tpm

Deleted file C:\DOCUME~1\HELMER~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\texmf\tpm/binary/bin-dviware.tpm

Deleted file C:\DOCUME~1\HELMER~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\texmf\tpm/binary/bin-eplain.tpm

Deleted file C:\DOCUME~1\HELMER~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\texmf\tpm/binary/bin-etex.tpm

Deleted file C:\DOCUME~1\HELMER~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\texmf\tpm/binary/bin-fontware.tpm

Deleted file C:\DOCUME~1\HELMER~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\texmf\tpm/binary/bin-getafm.tpm

Deleted file C:\DOCUME~1\HELMER~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\texmf\tpm/binary/bin-gsftopk-static.tpm

Deleted file C:\DOCUME~1\HELMER~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\texmf\tpm/binary/bin-gsftopk.tpm

Deleted file C:\DOCUME~1\HELMER~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\texmf\tpm/binary/bin-gzip.tpm

Deleted file C:\DOCUME~1\HELMER~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\texmf\tpm/binary/bin-jadetex.tpm

Deleted file C:\DOCUME~1\HELMER~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\texmf\tpm/binary/bin-jpeg2ps.tpm

Deleted file C:\DOCUME~1\HELMER~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\texmf\tpm/binary/bin-kpathsea.tpm

Deleted file C:\DOCUME~1\HELMER~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\texmf\tpm/binary/bin-lacheck.tpm

Deleted file C:\DOCUME~1\HELMER~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\texmf\tpm/binary/bin-latex.tpm

Deleted file C:\DOCUME~1\HELMER~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\texmf\tpm/binary/bin-lcdftypetools.tpm

Deleted file C:\DOCUME~1\HELMER~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\texmf\tpm/binary/bin-makeindex.tpm

Deleted file C:\DOCUME~1\HELMER~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\texmf\tpm/binary/bin-metafont.tpm

Deleted file C:\DOCUME~1\HELMER~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\texmf\tpm/binary/bin-metapost.tpm

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Deleted file C:\DOCUME~1\HELMER~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\texmf\tpm/binary/bin-musixflx.tpm

Deleted file C:\DOCUME~1\HELMER~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\texmf\tpm/binary/bin-omega-static.tpm

Deleted file C:\DOCUME~1\HELMER~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\texmf\tpm/binary/bin-omega.tpm

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Deleted file C:\DOCUME~1\HELMER~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\texmf\tpm/binary/bin-physe.tpm

Deleted file C:\DOCUME~1\HELMER~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\texmf\tpm/binary/bin-phyzzx.tpm

Deleted file C:\DOCUME~1\HELMER~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\texmf\tpm/binary/bin-platex.tpm

Deleted file C:\DOCUME~1\HELMER~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\texmf\tpm/binary/bin-ppower4.tpm

Deleted file C:\DOCUME~1\HELMER~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\texmf\tpm/binary/bin-ps2pkm.tpm

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Deleted file C:\DOCUME~1\HELMER~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\texmf\tpm/binary/bin-psutils.tpm

Deleted file C:\DOCUME~1\HELMER~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\texmf\tpm/binary/bin-seetexk.tpm

Deleted file C:\DOCUME~1\HELMER~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\texmf\tpm/binary/bin-t1utils.tpm

Deleted file C:\DOCUME~1\HELMER~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\texmf\tpm/binary/bin-tetex.tpm

Deleted file C:\DOCUME~1\HELMER~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\texmf\tpm/binary/bin-tex.tpm

Deleted file C:\DOCUME~1\HELMER~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\texmf\tpm/binary/bin-tex4htk-static.tpm

Deleted file C:\DOCUME~1\HELMER~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\texmf\tpm/binary/bin-tex4htk.tpm

Deleted file C:\DOCUME~1\HELMER~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\texmf\tpm/binary/bin-texconfig.tpm

Deleted file C:\DOCUME~1\HELMER~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\texmf\tpm/binary/bin-texdoc.tpm

Deleted file C:\DOCUME~1\HELMER~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\texmf\tpm/binary/bin-texinfo.tpm

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Running "C:\Program Files\TeXLive\bin\win32\mktexlsr.exe" "C:\Program Files\TeXLive\texmf-local"

Running "C:\Program Files\TeXLive\bin\win32\mktexlsr.exe" "C:\Program Files\TeXLive\texmf-var"

Running "C:\Program Files\TeXLive\bin\win32\updmap.exe" --nohash --cnffile="C:/Program Files/TeXLive/texmf-var/web2c/updmap.cfg"

using dvips output directory `C:/Program Files/TeXLive/texmf-var/fonts/map/dvips/updmap'


using pdftex output directory `C:/Program Files/TeXLive/texmf-var/fonts/map/pdftex/updmap'


using dvipdfm output directory `C:/Program Files/TeXLive/texmf-var/fonts/map/dvipdfm/updmap'


LW35 => URWkb


dvipsPreferOutline => true


dvipsDownloadBase35 => false


pdftexDownloadBase14 => true


dvipdfmDownloadBase14 => 





updmap is creating new map files using the following configuration:





  config file:     C:/Program Files/TeXLive/texmf-var/web2c/updmap.cfg


  prefer outlines: true


  texhash enabled: 0


  download standard fonts (dvips): false


  download standard fonts (pdftex): true


  download standard fonts (dvipdfm): 0


Scanning for LW35 support files


Scanning for MixedMap entries


Scanning for Map entries


Files generated:


 Volume in drive C is DRIVE_C


 Volume Serial Number is 7864-0498


 Directory of C:\Program Files\TeXLive\texmf-var\fonts\map\dvips\updmap


02/16/2004  09:04 PM            13,317 download35.map


               1 File(s)         13,317 bytes


               0 Dir(s)  49,124,888,576 bytes free


 Volume in drive C is DRIVE_C


 Volume Serial Number is 7864-0498


 Directory of C:\Program Files\TeXLive\texmf-var\fonts\map\dvips\updmap


02/16/2004  09:04 PM             9,200 builtin35.map


               1 File(s)          9,200 bytes


               0 Dir(s)  49,124,888,576 bytes free


 Volume in drive C is DRIVE_C


 Volume Serial Number is 7864-0498


 Directory of C:\Program Files\TeXLive\texmf-var\fonts\map\dvips\updmap


02/16/2004  09:04 PM            61,440 psfonts_t1.map


               1 File(s)         61,440 bytes


               0 Dir(s)  49,124,888,576 bytes free


 Volume in drive C is DRIVE_C


 Volume Serial Number is 7864-0498


 Directory of C:\Program Files\TeXLive\texmf-var\fonts\map\dvips\updmap


02/16/2004  09:04 PM            48,034 psfonts_pk.map


               1 File(s)         48,034 bytes


               0 Dir(s)  49,124,888,576 bytes free


 Volume in drive C is DRIVE_C


 Volume Serial Number is 7864-0498


 Directory of C:\Program Files\TeXLive\texmf-var\fonts\map\pdftex\updmap


02/16/2004  09:04 PM            57,994 pdftex_dl14.map


               1 File(s)         57,994 bytes


               0 Dir(s)  49,124,888,576 bytes free


 Volume in drive C is DRIVE_C


 Volume Serial Number is 7864-0498


 Directory of C:\Program Files\TeXLive\texmf-var\fonts\map\pdftex\updmap


02/16/2004  09:04 PM            56,420 pdftex_ndl14.map


               1 File(s)         56,420 bytes


               0 Dir(s)  49,124,888,576 bytes free


 Volume in drive C is DRIVE_C


 Volume Serial Number is 7864-0498


 Directory of C:\Program Files\TeXLive\texmf-var\fonts\map\dvipdfm\updmap


02/16/2004  09:04 PM            19,900 dvipdfm_dl14.map


               1 File(s)         19,900 bytes


               0 Dir(s)  49,124,888,576 bytes free


 Volume in drive C is DRIVE_C


 Volume Serial Number is 7864-0498


 Directory of C:\Program Files\TeXLive\texmf-var\fonts\map\dvipdfm\updmap


02/16/2004  09:04 PM            19,308 dvipdfm_ndl14.map


               1 File(s)         19,308 bytes


               0 Dir(s)  49,124,888,576 bytes free


 Volume in drive C is DRIVE_C


 Volume Serial Number is 7864-0498


 Directory of C:\Program Files\TeXLive\texmf-var\fonts\map\dvips\updmap


02/16/2004  09:04 PM            61,435 ps2pk.map


               1 File(s)         61,435 bytes


               0 Dir(s)  49,124,888,576 bytes free


From Frank.Plastria at vub.ac.be  Tue Feb 17 10:23:12 2004
From: Frank.Plastria at vub.ac.be (Plastria F.)
Date: Tue Feb 17 11:11:38 2004
Subject: [tex-live] outdated  eqnarray.sty on TeXLive 8
Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20040217101204.024231b0@pop.vub.ac.be>

It seems that the TeXLive 8 distribution
still contains version  1.2 of eqnarray.sty (1995)
instead of the more recent  1.2a (1997) as found on CTAN.
The only difference is that this obliges the user to load package array also.

Sincerely
F.Plastria
*********************************************************
* Prof. Frank PLASTRIA
* BEIF - Vakgroep Beleidsinformatica -
*              (Department of Management Informatics)
* Vrije Universiteit Brussel
* Pleinlaan, 2 ,  B-1050 Brussel , Belgium
* Phone : +32 2 6293609 (Office), +32 2 6293607 (Secretary)
* Fax : +32 2 6293690
* E-mail :Frank.Plastria@vub.ac.be
* URL: http://homepages.vub.ac.be/~faplastr
*********************************************************

From pragma at wxs.nl  Tue Feb 17 14:52:29 2004
From: pragma at wxs.nl (Hans Hagen)
Date: Tue Feb 17 14:53:48 2004
Subject: [tex-live] metapost pool file 
Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20040217145023.01cdaec0@server-1>

Hi,

In the process of cleaning up ... does it make sense to bring pool files 
and binaries in sync?

mp.pool -> mpost.pool since we have mpost(.exe)

and maybe also the default format?

Hans


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE/POD/CTS
                       Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
  tel: +31 (0)38 477 53 69 | fax: +31 (0)38 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                        information: http://www.pragma-ade.com/roadmap.pdf
                     documentation: http://www.pragma-ade.com/showcase.pdf
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

From vvv at vsu.ru  Tue Feb 17 18:20:53 2004
From: vvv at vsu.ru (Vladimir Volovich)
Date: Tue Feb 17 18:21:07 2004
Subject: [tex-live] cleanup
Message-ID: <ey8yj1y64q.fsf@video.uic.vsu.ru>

Hi!

A few things shall be fixed...

texmf/fonts/type1/glyphlist.txt
texmf-dist/fonts/type1/glyphlist.txt
  1) duplicated location of file - only one shall be left
  2) it seems an inappropriate location - better to use
     e.g. ../doc/fonts/type1/glyphlist.txt

texmf-dist/fonts/afm/bh/lucida.nam
  it's not an AFM file - shall better be moved to
  texmf-dist/doc/fonts/bh/lucida.nam

texmf-dist/fonts/type1/public/cs/README
  shall be moved to
  texmf-dist/doc/fonts/cs/README

texmf-dist/fonts/type1/public/chemarrow/Arrow.vfb
  what is this about?

texmf-dist/fonts/tfm/public/ibycus4/fibo.pl
texmf-dist/fonts/tfm/public/ibycus4/fibr.pl
  shall be removed as they can be obtained from fibo.tfm and fibr.tfm
  by tftopl

texmf-dist/dvips/ai/aifonts.map.nodownload
  it's a MAP file, so it shall be moved to texmf-dist/fonts/map/ai/

`find texmf-dist/fonts/vf -type f | egrep -v '\.vf$'`
  shall be moved to texmf-dist/source/fonts/cmcyr  

*.inf, *.pfm
  these are not used by TeX & friends, but nevertheless are
  distributed with some fonts.  What is considered to be a proper
  location for these files? shall they be put under fonts/type1/... ?

texmf-dist/fonts/ovp/
  Is this directory really needed? OVP is a textual form of OFM+OVF,
  and is an analog of VPL which is a textual form of TFM+VF; but we
  don't distribute VPL files. Unless the OVP (or VPL) files are
  hand-written, they can be fully restored from the "binary" form
  (OFM+OVF) using ovp2ovf (if they are hand-written, the comments will
  be lost).

`find texmf-dist/fonts/source -type f | egrep -v '\.mf$'`
  shall be moved to texmf-dist/source/... or texmf-dist/doc/fonts/...

Best,
v.

From karl at freefriends.org  Tue Feb 17 18:43:09 2004
From: karl at freefriends.org (Karl Berry)
Date: Tue Feb 17 18:43:23 2004
Subject: [tex-live] cleanup
In-Reply-To: <ey8yj1y64q.fsf@video.uic.vsu.ru>
Message-ID: <200402171743.i1HHh9e24481@f7.net>

    *.inf, *.pfm
      these are not used by TeX & friends, but nevertheless are
      distributed with some fonts.  What is considered to be a proper
      location for these files? shall they be put under fonts/type1/... ?

We wrote a paragraph about this in TDS 1.0.  Do you think it needs changes?

\path|pfm| files are included in the \path|type1| directory, instead of
being given their own directory, for two reasons: 1)~a \path|.pfm| file
is always an adjunct to a given \path|.pfb| file; 2)~they must be
installed from the same directory for Windows programs other than \TeX{}
to use them.  Furthermore, although it is better to use \path|afm| and
\path|inf| files than \path|pfm|, \path|inf| files are available for
few public \TeX{} fonts (at this writing).
From vvv at vsu.ru  Tue Feb 17 18:49:24 2004
From: vvv at vsu.ru (Vladimir Volovich)
Date: Tue Feb 17 18:49:35 2004
Subject: [tex-live] cleanup
In-Reply-To: <200402171743.i1HHh9e24481@f7.net> (Karl Berry's message of
	"Tue, 17 Feb 2004 12:43:09 -0500")
References: <200402171743.i1HHh9e24481@f7.net>
Message-ID: <ey4qtpy4t7.fsf@video.uic.vsu.ru>

"KB" == Karl Berry writes:

 KB> We wrote a paragraph about this in TDS 1.0.  Do you think it
 KB> needs changes?

 KB> \path|pfm| files are included in the \path|type1| directory,
 KB> instead of being given their own directory, for two reasons: 1)~a
 KB> \path|.pfm| file is always an adjunct to a given \path|.pfb|
 KB> file; 2)~they must be installed from the same directory for
 KB> Windows programs other than \TeX{} to use them.  Furthermore,
 KB> although it is better to use \path|afm| and \path|inf| files than
 KB> \path|pfm|, \path|inf| files are available for few public \TeX{}
 KB> fonts (at this writing).

This is clear RE the location of PFM files (and i agree that it's a
good choice), but it's not clear what is suggested for INF files -
shall they be put in the same dir as *.pf[abm], or in the same dir as
*.afm ?

Best,
v.

From karl at freefriends.org  Tue Feb 17 18:54:52 2004
From: karl at freefriends.org (Karl Berry)
Date: Tue Feb 17 18:55:05 2004
Subject: [tex-live] cleanup
In-Reply-To: <ey4qtpy4t7.fsf@video.uic.vsu.ru>
Message-ID: <200402171754.i1HHsqr27096@f7.net>

    it's not clear what is suggested for INF files -

You tell me.  I've never used an INF file in my life.  Does software
that uses them look in the same directory as the PFM?  Or in the same
directory as the AFM?  Or ... ?

Thanks,
k
From vvv at vsu.ru  Tue Feb 17 19:02:04 2004
From: vvv at vsu.ru (Vladimir Volovich)
Date: Tue Feb 17 19:02:16 2004
Subject: [tex-live] cleanup
In-Reply-To: <200402171754.i1HHsqr27096@f7.net> (Karl Berry's message of
	"Tue, 17 Feb 2004 12:54:52 -0500")
References: <200402171754.i1HHsqr27096@f7.net>
Message-ID: <eyznbhwpnn.fsf@video.uic.vsu.ru>

"KB" == Karl Berry writes:

 VV>     it's not clear what is suggested for INF files -

 KB> You tell me.  I've never used an INF file in my life.  Does
 KB> software that uses them look in the same directory as the PFM?
 KB> Or in the same directory as the AFM?  Or ... ?

Adobe Type Manager (ATM), which is used to install the Type 1 fonts,
searches for the PFB+AFM+INF files in the same directory to generate
the PFM file (the latter is generated from AFM+INF, but ATM cannot
install the Type 1 font without PFB being in the same directory as
AFM+INF).

Given that we already put AFM in a different directory than PFB (so we
cannot achive the result of having PFB+AFM+INF in the same dir without
having to move the files), I'd put INF into in same dir as AFM,
because AFM+INF can be used to generate the PFM file.

Best,
v.

From aa056 at chebucto.ns.ca  Tue Feb 17 19:55:17 2004
From: aa056 at chebucto.ns.ca (George N. White III)
Date: Tue Feb 17 20:16:26 2004
Subject: [tex-live] test .iso images and ConTeXt
In-Reply-To: <4030C975.4060001@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>
References: <4030C975.4060001@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.4.58.0402171428430.385862@montigo.bio.dfo.ca>

On Mon, 16 Feb 2004, Sebastian Rahtz wrote:

> Please note that only the ones I made today are any good. If
> you collected one in the last few days, grab again now.
>
> another slew of updates went in yesterday and today

Good work (I wish TL2003 had worked as smoothly, but there is still
plenty of time to break things)!

My linux machine lacks a CD reader, so I ran "install-tl.sh" on an SGI
box, ignored the updmap errors, then NFS mounted from linux to finish the
install by running updmap and make some some formats.  I reorganized the
texmf-local tree, installed the last ConTeXt, installed a font
using texfont.pl, and even formated a few documents:

This is pdfeTeXk, Version 3.141592-1.11c-beta-20040208-2.1 (Web2C 7.5.2)
(format=cont-en 2004.2.17)  17 FEB 2004 13:12
entering extended mode
 (/mnt/montigo/TeX/TL2004-test/texmf-dist/web2c/cp8bit.tcx)
 %&-line parsing enabled.
**&cont-en t2.tex
(./t2.tex{/mnt/montigo/TeX/TL2004-test/texmf-var/pdftex/config/pdftex.cfg}

ConTeXt  ver: 2004.1.25  fmt: 2004.2.17  int: english  mes: english
[...]

TL Issues:

readme.html:  texmf/doc --> texmf-dist/doc

texfont.pl mapped ../TeX/TL2004... to lowercase

Side issues:

xpdf 3.0 dies on page 4 or so of:

  texmf-dist/doc/context/manuals/mchart.pdf

(using either SGI Irix or linux) and displays some colors incorrectly
(despite having "xpdf.installCmap:  true").  Probably an xpdf bug, but
people here trust xpdf over pdftex, so guess who will be blamed.

--
George N. White III  <aa056@chebucto.ns.ca>
  Head of St. Margarets Bay, Nova Scotia, Canada
From te at dbs.uni-hannover.de  Tue Feb 17 20:59:52 2004
From: te at dbs.uni-hannover.de (Thomas Esser)
Date: Tue Feb 17 21:00:05 2004
Subject: [tex-live] test .iso images and ConTeXt
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SGI.4.58.0402171428430.385862@montigo.bio.dfo.ca>
References: <4030C975.4060001@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>
	<Pine.SGI.4.58.0402171428430.385862@montigo.bio.dfo.ca>
Message-ID: <20040217195951.GA9014@dbs.uni-hannover.de>

> (despite having "xpdf.installCmap:  true").  Probably an xpdf bug, but
> people here trust xpdf over pdftex, so guess who will be blamed.

Well, maybe, someone can pass the following stacktrace (together with
the pdf file to the maintainer of xpdf)?

(gdb) run  /t/texlive/Master/texmf-dist/doc/context/manuals/mchart.pdf 
Starting program: /usr/local/bin/xpdf /t/texlive/Master/texmf-dist/doc/context/m
anuals/mchart.pdf

Program received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault.
SplashXPathScanner::SplashXPathScanner (this=0x82aaba0, xPathA=0x82384b0, 
    eoA=0) at SplashXPathScanner.cc:44
44        if (seg->x0 <= seg->x1) {
(gdb) where
#0  SplashXPathScanner::SplashXPathScanner (this=0x82aaba0, xPathA=0x82384b0, 
    eoA=0) at SplashXPathScanner.cc:44
#1  0x080be472 in Splash::fillWithPattern (this=0x8192170, path=0x8245810, 
    eo=0, pattern=0x829b948) at Splash.cc:636
#2  0x080be3c2 in Splash::fill (this=0x8192170, path=0x8245810, eo=0)
    at Splash.cc:621
#3  0x080965e0 in SplashOutputDev::fill (this=0x8188468, state=0x823d858)
    at SplashOutputDev.cc:735
#4  0x080589d6 in Gfx::opFill (this=0x828ca20, args=0xbfffee5c, numArgs=0)
    at Gfx.cc:1140
#5  0x08056dfe in Gfx::execOp (this=0x828ca20, cmd=0xbfffeebc, 
    args=0xbfffee5c, numArgs=0) at Gfx.cc:660
#6  0x08056a88 in Gfx::go (this=0x828ca20, topLevel=1) at Gfx.cc:551
#7  0x08056917 in Gfx::display (this=0x828ca20, obj=0xbfffef7c, topLevel=1)
    at Gfx.cc:523
#8  0x0808a3de in Page::displaySlice (this=0x81b5f40, out=0x8188468, hDPI=90, 
    vDPI=90, rotate=0, crop=1, sliceX=-1, sliceY=-1, sliceW=-1, sliceH=-1, 
    links=0x81ba2a8, catalog=0x81b1cd8, abortCheckCbk=0, abortCheckCbkData=0x0)
    at Page.cc:319
#9  0x08089f88 in Page::display (this=0x81b5f40, out=0x8188468, hDPI=90, 
    vDPI=90, rotate=0, crop=1, links=0x81ba2a8, catalog=0x81b1cd8, 
    abortCheckCbk=0, abortCheckCbkData=0x0) at Page.cc:227
#10 0x0808bb22 in PDFDoc::displayPage (this=0x81b0e18, out=0x8188468, page=4, 
    hDPI=90, vDPI=90, rotate=0, crop=1, doLinks=1, abortCheckCbk=0, 
    abortCheckCbkData=0x0) at PDFDoc.cc:219
#11 0x080ab361 in XPDFCore::displayPage (this=0x81873e0, pageA=4, zoomA=125, 
    rotateA=0, scrollToTop=1, addToHist=1) at XPDFCore.cc:513
#12 0x080ab6d3 in XPDFCore::gotoNextPage (this=0x81873e0, inc=1, top=1)
    at XPDFCore.cc:622
#13 0x080aba95 in XPDFCore::scrollPageDown (this=0x81873e0) at XPDFCore.cc:715
#14 0x080ae0d9 in XPDFCore::keyPress (this=0x81873e0, s=0xbffff1a4 "", 
    key=65366, modifiers=0) at XPDFCore.cc:1773
#15 0x080adfa2 in XPDFCore::inputCbk (widget=0x81882f8, ptr=0x81873e0, 
    callData=0xbffff23c) at XPDFCore.cc:1736
#16 0x4026376f in XtCallCallbackList () from /usr/X11R6/lib/libXt.so.6
#17 0x400febf7 in _XmDrawingAreaInput () from /usr/X11R6/lib/libXm.so.2
#18 0x402936ad in HandleActions () from /usr/X11R6/lib/libXt.so.6
#19 0x40293b80 in HandleSimpleState () from /usr/X11R6/lib/libXt.so.6
#20 0x402940e4 in _XtTranslateEvent () from /usr/X11R6/lib/libXt.so.6
#21 0x4026f004 in XtDispatchEventToWidget () from /usr/X11R6/lib/libXt.so.6
#22 0x4026f9b8 in _XtDefaultDispatcher () from /usr/X11R6/lib/libXt.so.6
#23 0x4026fc19 in XtDispatchEvent () from /usr/X11R6/lib/libXt.so.6
#24 0x40270065 in XtAppMainLoop () from /usr/X11R6/lib/libXt.so.6
#25 0x080a9c85 in XPDFApp::run (this=0x813bd50) at XPDFApp.cc:290
#26 0x080b9b5f in main (argc=2, argv=0xbffff5e4) at xpdf.cc:288
#27 0x4042fca6 in __libc_start_main (main=0x80b93c0 <main>, argc=2, 
    ubp_av=0x813bd50, init=0x80d4f60 <__libc_csu_init>, 
    fini=0x80d4f90 <__libc_csu_fini>, rtld_fini=0x813c680, stack_end=0x0)
    at ../sysdeps/generic/libc-start.c:152

Thomas
From ftpmaint at alan.smcvt.edu  Tue Feb 17 21:51:30 2004
From: ftpmaint at alan.smcvt.edu (Jim Hefferon)
Date: Tue Feb 17 21:50:50 2004
Subject: [tex-live] ctan-1.00.dtd
In-Reply-To: <200402170152.i1H1qtK17478@f7.net> (karl@freefriends.org)
References: <200402170152.i1H1qtK17478@f7.net>
Message-ID: <200402172051.i1HKpUW00864@alan.smcvt.edu>

Karl, Kaja,

   Jim, can you enlighten us?
   (I get the same error in my Linux mozilla, FWIW.)

Sorry; beats heck out of me.  

I had accidentally uploaded a not-current dtd (which is why it had the 
wrong name).  I've uploaded the current one
  ftp://joshua.smcvt.edu/pub/hefferon/ctan-1.00.dtd
along with a revided version of the doc
  ftp://joshua.smcvt.edu/pub/hefferon/ctan.pdf
and a sample file
  ftp://joshua.smcvt.edu/pub/hefferon/shadethm.ctan
.  Sorry about the mis-upload.

I have checked the 1.00 with my DTD syntax checker (called dtdcmd.py;
it parses a trivial XML doc against the DTD, as I understand it), and it
likes it.  But IE also fails to display the DTD.  It likes the
.ctan, though.  Dunno.

Please forgive the docs; they were really meant to be read only by me at
the moment.

Jim

============ 

   Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 10:47:49 +0100
   From: "Kaja P. Christiansen" <kaja@daimi.au.dk>
   To: karl@freefriends.org
   Subject: ctan-1.00.dtd



   Hi Karl

   Jim Hefferon said recently on tex-live list

    > I have my current version of metadata, which would be a source of summary
    > material in my (current) plan at 
    >   ftp://joshua.smcvt.edu/pub/ctan

   but when I tried to open the ctan-1.00.dtd file from this page,
   my browser (mozilla, recently upgraded at work) returned an error:

     XML Parsing Error: syntax error
     Location: ftp://joshua.smcvt.edu/pub/ctan/ctan-1.00.dtd
     Line Number 16, Column 1:

     <!ELEMENT CTAN (package)*>
     ^

   Do you know why? Would it mean that this version of mozilla
   doesn't support XML?

   K

From aa056 at chebucto.ns.ca  Wed Feb 18 12:44:11 2004
From: aa056 at chebucto.ns.ca (George N. White III)
Date: Wed Feb 18 13:01:33 2004
Subject: [tex-live] test .iso images and ConTeXt
In-Reply-To: <20040217195951.GA9014@dbs.uni-hannover.de>
References: <4030C975.4060001@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>
	<Pine.SGI.4.58.0402171428430.385862@montigo.bio.dfo.ca>
	<20040217195951.GA9014@dbs.uni-hannover.de>
Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.4.58.0402180742570.385862@montigo.bio.dfo.ca>

On Tue, 17 Feb 2004, Thomas Esser wrote:

> > (despite having "xpdf.installCmap:  true").  Probably an xpdf bug, but
> > people here trust xpdf over pdftex, so guess who will be blamed.
>
> Well, maybe, someone can pass the following stacktrace (together with
> the pdf file to the maintainer of xpdf)?

I sent a similar trace from my Irix system, but haven't seen a response. I
miss some messages among all the virus mails I get -- for a while memos
from HQ were being classed as pornographic spam (too much french?).

--
George N. White III  <aa056@chebucto.ns.ca>
  Head of St. Margarets Bay, Nova Scotia, Canada
From staw at gust.org.pl  Fri Feb 20 06:25:04 2004
From: staw at gust.org.pl (Staszek Wawrykiewicz)
Date: Fri Feb 20 06:17:33 2004
Subject: [tex-live] .enc, .map and texmf.cnf
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0402200607380.14954-100000@re86.internetdsl.tpnet.pl>

I'd like to sort out some changes made in TL depot (in texmf-dist and 
source.development):
1. dvips still searches .enc files along TEXPSHEADERS, but .map files
   are now searched only in TEXFONTMAPS
2. pdftex now uses only new variable for .enc
   ENCFONTS =  .;$TEXMF/fonts/enc//
3. when looking for Type1 fonts it is still misunderstood:
   TEXPSHEADERS vs. T1FONTS
4. making such big and radical (nomen omen :) cleaning, why not changing 
   TEXCONFIG finally to e.g. DVIPSCONFIG (to avoid special notes ;-)
   (see new PDFTEXCONFIG introduced). Tomas and Tom?

Anyway, we should remember about all that changes in the documentations
(dvips, pdftex, web2c, TL, etc.)

Please note also some differences between texmf.cnf in < TL2003 
and > the current texmf.cnf found on depot (not including TEXMF
and TEXINPUTS sections as not important here):

< VARTEXFONTS  =   $VARTEXMF/fonts
> VARTEXFONTS  =   /var/tmp/texfonts
Hmm... should be reverted because of Windows (can be changed on unices
during installation or when running texconfig).

---
< TEXFONTMAPS =   .;$TEXMF/fontname
> TEXFONTMAPS =   .;$TEXMF/fonts/map//
To be noted in the docs that fontname stuff has gone to 
texmf/fonts/map/dvips/fontname

---
< % this is also where pdftex finds included figures files!
No more true?

< TEXPSHEADERS = .;$TEXMF/{{dvips,fonts/{map,enc}/{dvips,}},pdftex,tex,fonts/type1}//
> TEXPSHEADERS = .;$TEXMF/{fonts/{enc,type1},dvips}//
< TEXPSHEADERS.gsftopk = .;$TEXMF/{{dvips,fonts/{map,enc}/{dvips,}},pdftex,tex,fonts/{type1,truetype}}//
> TEXPSHEADERS.gsftopk =  .;$TEXMF/{fonts/{enc,type1,truetype},dvips}//
Much better, but .enc files for dvips...

---
< T1FONTS =  .;$TEXMF/fonts/{type1,pfb}//;$TEXMF/fonts/misc/hbf//
> T1FONTS =  .;$TEXMF/fonts/type1//
I've never used .hbf, but there is no any special variable for them.

---
< TTFONTS =  .;$TEXMF/fonts/{truetype,ttf}//
> TTFONTS =  .;$TEXMF/fonts/truetype//
---
<% Dvips' config.* files (this name should not start with `TEX'!).
Just wrote about that...
< TEXCONFIG =  $TEXMF/{dvips,fonts/{map,enc}/{dvips,}}//
> TEXCONFIG =  $TEXMF/dvips//
---
< INDEXSTYLE = .;$TEXMF/makeindex//;$TEXMF/tex//
> INDEXSTYLE = .;$TEXMF/makeindex//

---
Some new variables:

> % Font encoding files (.enc).
> ENCFONTS =   .;$TEXMF/fonts/enc//
> 
> % CMap files.
> CMAPFONTS = .;$TEXMF/fonts/cmap//
> 
> % Subfont definition files.
> SFDFONTS = .;$TEXMF/fonts/sfd//
> 
> % Opentype outline fonts.
> OPENTYPEFONTS = .;$TEXMF/fonts/opentype//
> 
> % Pdftex config files:
> PDFTEXCONFIG = .;$TEXMF/pdftex/{$progname,}//

---
< %dvipdfm
< DVIPDFMINPUTS =  .;$TEXMF/{dvipdfm,{dvips,fonts/{map,enc}/{dvips,}}}//
No more needed?
---
< XDVIINPUTS=.;$TEXMF/{xdvi,{dvips,fonts/{map,enc}/{dvips,}}}//
No more needed?


-- 
Staszek Wawrykiewicz
StaW@gust.org.pl


From te at dbs.uni-hannover.de  Fri Feb 20 07:00:32 2004
From: te at dbs.uni-hannover.de (Thomas Esser)
Date: Fri Feb 20 07:00:50 2004
Subject: [tex-live] Re: [tex-k] .enc, .map and texmf.cnf
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0402200607380.14954-100000@re86.internetdsl.tpnet.pl>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0402200607380.14954-100000@re86.internetdsl.tpnet.pl>
Message-ID: <20040220060032.GA19464@dbs.uni-hannover.de>

Hi Staszek,

since I have done most (all?) of the changes that you quote, I'll tell
you why I made each of these changes.

> 1. dvips still searches .enc files along TEXPSHEADERS, but .map files
>    are now searched only in TEXFONTMAPS

Yes. I wrote earlier about it: when writing output, dvips searches along
TEXPSHEADERS for each included file. Until this is split up in the code
(enc, type1, prologues), TEXPSHEADERS has to catch all of them. Not nice,
but not so easy to change. Tom? Tomas?

> 4. making such big and radical (nomen omen :) cleaning, why not changing 
>    TEXCONFIG finally to e.g. DVIPSCONFIG (to avoid special notes ;-)
>    (see new PDFTEXCONFIG introduced). Tomas and Tom?

:-)

> < VARTEXFONTS  =   $VARTEXMF/fonts
> > VARTEXFONTS  =   /var/tmp/texfonts
> Hmm... should be reverted because of Windows (can be changed on unices
> during installation or when running texconfig).

Yes, we need to find a solution for that mismatch.

> < % this is also where pdftex finds included figures files!
> No more true?

I have done a test with a recent version of pdftex and it has looked
along TEXINPUTS for included figures.

> < T1FONTS =  .;$TEXMF/fonts/{type1,pfb}//;$TEXMF/fonts/misc/hbf//
> > T1FONTS =  .;$TEXMF/fonts/type1//
> I've never used .hbf, but there is no any special variable for them.

pfb is wrong, type1 is right (TDS). hbf? I could not find anything like
this in our tree, so I have removed it from the path.

> < TTFONTS =  .;$TEXMF/fonts/{truetype,ttf}//
> > TTFONTS =  .;$TEXMF/fonts/truetype//

ttf is wrong, truetype is right (TDS).

> < TEXCONFIG =  $TEXMF/{dvips,fonts/{map,enc}/{dvips,}}//
> > TEXCONFIG =  $TEXMF/dvips//

TEXCONFIG is no longer used for map/enc.

> < INDEXSTYLE = .;$TEXMF/makeindex//;$TEXMF/tex//
> > INDEXSTYLE = .;$TEXMF/makeindex//

That just has looked wrong to me. If anybody knows a reason why
INDEXSTYLE should search tex//, please stand up.

> < DVIPDFMINPUTS =  .;$TEXMF/{dvipdfm,{dvips,fonts/{map,enc}/{dvips,}}}//
> No more needed?

Right, because the automatic default for <progname>INPUTS is
  .;$TEXMF/<progname>//

And, we use the new paths for map/enc.

> < XDVIINPUTS=.;$TEXMF/{xdvi,{dvips,fonts/{map,enc}/{dvips,}}}//
> No more needed?

Right.

Thomas
From wl at gnu.org  Fri Feb 20 08:03:12 2004
From: wl at gnu.org (Werner LEMBERG)
Date: Fri Feb 20 08:08:51 2004
Subject: [tex-live] Re: [tex-k] .enc, .map and texmf.cnf
In-Reply-To: <20040220060032.GA19464@dbs.uni-hannover.de>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0402200607380.14954-100000@re86.internetdsl.tpnet.pl>
	<20040220060032.GA19464@dbs.uni-hannover.de>
Message-ID: <20040220.080312.22595046.wl@gnu.org>

> > < T1FONTS =  .;$TEXMF/fonts/{type1,pfb}//;$TEXMF/fonts/misc/hbf//
> > > T1FONTS =  .;$TEXMF/fonts/type1//
> > I've never used .hbf, but there is no any special variable for them.
> 
> pfb is wrong, type1 is right (TDS). hbf? I could not find anything
> like this in our tree, so I have removed it from the path.

HBF fonts are used for some Chinese bitmap fonts.  Only hbf2gf needs
to know about them.  Up to kpathsea 3.2 the T1FONTS variable has been
used for them (since there wasn't anything better).  Starting with
kpathsea 3.3, hbf2gf uses the MISCFONTS variable.


    Werner
From ms at artcom-gmbh.de  Fri Feb 20 10:05:46 2004
From: ms at artcom-gmbh.de (Martin =?iso-8859-1?Q?Schr=F6der?=)
Date: Fri Feb 20 10:06:47 2004
Subject: [tex-live] Re: [tex-k] .enc, .map and texmf.cnf
In-Reply-To: <20040220060032.GA19464@dbs.uni-hannover.de>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0402200607380.14954-100000@re86.internetdsl.tpnet.pl>
	<20040220060032.GA19464@dbs.uni-hannover.de>
Message-ID: <20040220090545.GT22933@artcom8.artcom-gmbh.de>

On 2004-02-20 07:00:32 +0100, Thomas Esser wrote:
> > < % this is also where pdftex finds included figures files!
> > No more true?
> 
> I have done a test with a recent version of pdftex and it has looked
> along TEXINPUTS for included figures.

As it should.

Best regards
        Martin
-- 
               Martin Schr?der, ms@artcom-gmbh.de
     ArtCom GmbH, Lise-Meitner-Str 5, 28359 Bremen, Germany
          Voice +49 421 20419-44 / Fax +49 421 20419-10
                    http://www.artcom-gmbh.de
From pragma at wxs.nl  Fri Feb 20 11:19:40 2004
From: pragma at wxs.nl (Hans Hagen)
Date: Fri Feb 20 12:01:04 2004
Subject: [tex-live] Re: [tex-k] .enc, .map and texmf.cnf
In-Reply-To: <20040220060032.GA19464@dbs.uni-hannover.de>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0402200607380.14954-100000@re86.internetdsl.tpnet.pl>
	<20040220060032.GA19464@dbs.uni-hannover.de>
Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20040220111844.01cc4e48@server-1>

At 07:00 20/02/2004, Thomas Esser wrote:

> > < VARTEXFONTS  =   $VARTEXMF/fonts
> > > VARTEXFONTS  =   /var/tmp/texfonts
> > Hmm... should be reverted because of Windows (can be changed on unices
> > during installation or when running texconfig).
>
>Yes, we need to find a solution for that mismatch.

why isn't $VARTEXMF set to $TEMP (or %TEMP on windows)

Hans  

From fabrice.popineau at supelec.fr  Fri Feb 20 12:21:20 2004
From: fabrice.popineau at supelec.fr (Fabrice Popineau)
Date: Fri Feb 20 12:21:51 2004
Subject: [tex-live] Re: [tex-k] .enc, .map and texmf.cnf
In-Reply-To: <6.0.1.1.2.20040220111844.01cc4e48@server-1>
Message-ID: <200402201140.i1KBei421914@smtp.metz.supelec.fr>


Under Windows NT,2K,XP and under various network configurations, there is 
one %TEMP% directory per user. That means they wouldn't be able to share the
generated files.

For a while now, I have set kpathsea to set TEMP and TMP to TEXMFTEMP
whenever TEXMFTEMP is defined in the environment (beware : not in
texmf.cnf!). This TEXMFTEMP variable is set by TeXSetup.exe when running a
NT based version of Windows, its default value is 
C:/Program Files/TeXLive/temp
and the directory is created with the right permissions to allow everybody
to write in it and read whatever other people have put there.

Fabrice

-----Message d'origine-----
De?: tex-live-bounces@tug.org [mailto:tex-live-bounces@tug.org] De la part
de Hans Hagen
Envoy??: vendredi 20 f?vrier 2004 11:20
??: TeX Live production
Objet?: Re: [tex-live] Re: [tex-k] .enc, .map and texmf.cnf

At 07:00 20/02/2004, Thomas Esser wrote:

> > < VARTEXFONTS  =   $VARTEXMF/fonts
> > > VARTEXFONTS  =   /var/tmp/texfonts
> > Hmm... should be reverted because of Windows (can be changed on unices
> > during installation or when running texconfig).
>
>Yes, we need to find a solution for that mismatch.

why isn't $VARTEXMF set to $TEMP (or %TEMP on windows)

Hans  

_______________________________________________
TeX Live mailing list
http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/tex-live

From pragma at wxs.nl  Fri Feb 20 14:40:11 2004
From: pragma at wxs.nl (Hans Hagen)
Date: Fri Feb 20 15:20:24 2004
Subject: [tex-live] Re: [tex-k] .enc, .map and texmf.cnf
In-Reply-To: <200402201140.i1KBei421914@smtp.metz.supelec.fr>
References: <6.0.1.1.2.20040220111844.01cc4e48@server-1>
	<200402201140.i1KBei421914@smtp.metz.supelec.fr>
Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20040220143834.01d8c238@server-1>

At 12:21 20/02/2004, Fabrice Popineau wrote:

>Under Windows NT,2K,XP and under various network configurations, there is
>one %TEMP% directory per user. That means they wouldn't be able to share the
>generated files.

this does not sound like a real problem, unless whole families start using 
tex on their shared computer, which is probably wishfull thinking

Hans  

From te at dbs.uni-hannover.de  Fri Feb 20 18:56:46 2004
From: te at dbs.uni-hannover.de (Thomas Esser)
Date: Fri Feb 20 18:56:59 2004
Subject: [tex-live] Re: [tex-k] .enc, .map and texmf.cnf
In-Reply-To: <6.0.1.1.2.20040220111844.01cc4e48@server-1>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0402200607380.14954-100000@re86.internetdsl.tpnet.pl>
	<20040220060032.GA19464@dbs.uni-hannover.de>
	<6.0.1.1.2.20040220111844.01cc4e48@server-1>
Message-ID: <20040220175646.GD19464@dbs.uni-hannover.de>

> why isn't $VARTEXMF set to $TEMP (or %TEMP on windows)

1) neither TMP nor TEMP are a standard on UNIX systems, i.e. we can't
   be sure that it is set

2) people who set one of those variables set this to paths that are
   sometimes completely in ram or at locations otherwise cleared
   at bootup (or if old files are found there)

We can't do that.

Thomas
From staw at gust.org.pl  Sat Feb 21 03:34:57 2004
From: staw at gust.org.pl (Staszek Wawrykiewicz)
Date: Sat Feb 21 03:27:00 2004
Subject: [tex-live] .enc, .map and texmf.cnf
In-Reply-To: <20040220060032.GA19464@dbs.uni-hannover.de>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0402210250390.16170-100000@re86.internetdsl.tpnet.pl>

Thomas,

many thanks for your detailed (and clear, as usual) answer.

> > 1. dvips still searches .enc files along TEXPSHEADERS, but .map files
> >    are now searched only in TEXFONTMAPS
> 
> Yes. I wrote earlier about it: when writing output, dvips searches along
> TEXPSHEADERS for each included file. Until this is split up in the code
> (enc, type1, prologues), TEXPSHEADERS has to catch all of them. Not nice,
> but not so easy to change. Tom? Tomas?

Yes, but for average user it could be not easy to undestand why
.map files are no more searched along TEXPSHEADERS. The new 
variable ENCFONTS was introduced, but only used by pdftex, so the
comment
% Font encoding files (.enc).
should be changed to
% Font encoding files (.enc) for pdfTeX.
(I didn't checked where dvipdfm searches .enc ;-)

> > < INDEXSTYLE = .;$TEXMF/makeindex//;$TEXMF/tex//
> > > INDEXSTYLE = .;$TEXMF/makeindex//
> 
> That just has looked wrong to me. If anybody knows a reason why
> INDEXSTYLE should search tex//, please stand up.

Sure. I didn't commented similar evident examples.
Many thanks again for cleaning all those matters.

-- 
Staszek Wawrykiewicz
StaW@gust.org.pl


From te at dbs.uni-hannover.de  Sat Feb 21 09:33:12 2004
From: te at dbs.uni-hannover.de (Thomas Esser)
Date: Sat Feb 21 09:33:32 2004
Subject: [tex-live] .enc, .map and texmf.cnf
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0402210250390.16170-100000@re86.internetdsl.tpnet.pl>
References: <20040220060032.GA19464@dbs.uni-hannover.de>
	<Pine.LNX.4.44.0402210250390.16170-100000@re86.internetdsl.tpnet.pl>
Message-ID: <20040221083312.GA18493@dbs.uni-hannover.de>

> many thanks for your detailed (and clear, as usual) answer.

Well, you and everybody else deserve this level of information. I can't
just change such things and then be quiet with explanations :-)

> Yes, but for average user it could be not easy to undestand why
> .map files are no more searched along TEXPSHEADERS. The new 

For dvips, this was never true. map files have been searched along
TEXCONFIG. pdftex has used TEXPSHEADERS, but this was a bug. Nobody
really noticed this, however, until we made this change.

In dvips, map file access was done in a single place in the source which
was only used to access map files and this could be changed easily. The
downloading code, however, has a single place for downloading enc /
type1 / prologues.  One cannot easily change this from TEXPSHEADERS to
a different search path. Instead, it has to be split up.

BTW: gsftopk uses the same technique as dvips. But, I hope that we can
just adopt the new code in dvips for gsftopk as well (as soon as we
have it).

Until then, dvips and gsftopk have to have this ugly TEXPSHEADERS
search path. After we have taken enc / type1 out, TEXPSHEADERS no longer
needs to look at texmf/fonts at all.

> % Font encoding files (.enc) for pdfTeX.
> (I didn't checked where dvipdfm searches .enc ;-)

We also have mktexpk (for helping ps2pk), dvipdfm, dvipdfmx and xdvi
which look at the new path. Maybe, the comment should better be:

  % Font encoding files (.enc); some applications might still use
  % TEXPSHEADERS for this.

The same is true for T1FONTS fonts, and this for quite a long time.

Thomas
From pragma at wxs.nl  Sat Feb 21 18:04:48 2004
From: pragma at wxs.nl (Hans Hagen)
Date: Sat Feb 21 18:33:11 2004
Subject: [tex-live] .enc, .map and texmf.cnf
In-Reply-To: <20040221083312.GA18493@dbs.uni-hannover.de>
References: <20040220060032.GA19464@dbs.uni-hannover.de>
	<Pine.LNX.4.44.0402210250390.16170-100000@re86.internetdsl.tpnet.pl>
	<20040221083312.GA18493@dbs.uni-hannover.de>
Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20040221180119.01c02ec0@localhost>

Hi Thomas,

>TEXCONFIG. pdftex has used TEXPSHEADERS, but this was a bug. Nobody
>really noticed this, however, until we made this change.

actually it was some fuzzy feature -)

i've always found that strange for pdftex, but i was told that it had to be 
(something to do with all those map etc files) and could not be changed 
(talking of years back); but i'm glad it gone now; i guess that originally 
psheaders was for ps prologue files but got misused.

another anomality is that graphics are searched along the tex source path, 
should be an independent graphics path $GRAPHICINPUTS, defaulting to $TEXINPUTS

Hans  

From p.se at gmx.at  Mon Feb 23 10:03:03 2004
From: p.se at gmx.at (p.se@gmx.at)
Date: Mon Feb 23 10:03:17 2004
Subject: [tex-live] hyphen / language.dat problem
Message-ID: <2743.1077526983@www2.gmx.net>

I would like to come back to my question concerning the installation
script on TexlLive 9/2003 (not 2004, as I wrote erroneously).

As stated, the wrong language.dat file is used in the automatic
install procedure. Sebastian Rahtz wrote:

It sounds like this is the root of the problem. If you do 
not have "kpsewhich", you do not have a running TeX KLive....

Well, of course I am not having a running system, I am trying
to install it! And shouldn't install-tl.sh simply do this job?

There is also a permission problem. The permissions set for the
main TeX directory and many subdirs are

Shouldn't that be drwxr-xr-x ?

Best regards, 
Petra

-- 
GMX ProMail (250 MB Mailbox, 50 FreeSMS, Virenschutz, 2,99 EUR/Monat...)
jetzt 3 Monate GRATIS + 3x DER SPIEGEL +++ http://www.gmx.net/derspiegel +++

From aa056 at chebucto.ns.ca  Mon Feb 23 18:09:27 2004
From: aa056 at chebucto.ns.ca (George N. White III)
Date: Mon Feb 23 18:30:32 2004
Subject: [tex-live] test .iso images
In-Reply-To: <4030C975.4060001@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>
References: <4030C975.4060001@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.4.58.0402231230070.602845@montigo.bio.dfo.ca>

On Mon, 16 Feb 2004, Sebastian Rahtz wrote:

> Please note that only the ones I made today are any good. If
> you collected one in the last few days, grab again now.
>
> another slew of updates went in yesterday and today

Didn't get to do much testing due to a massive snow storm (over 90cm in 24
hours) that shut down Nova Scotia for 4 days.  In my rush to get home
before roads became impassible last Wed. I neglected to bring the install
CD.

I just noticed that xdvi reports:

Could not find config file xdvi.cfg in path
"/opt/TeX/TL2004-test/texmf-var/xdvi:\
/opt/TeX/TL2004-test/texmf/xdvi:\
/opt/TeX/TL200"



--
George N. White III  <aa056@chebucto.ns.ca>
  Head of St. Margarets Bay, Nova Scotia, Canada


From karl at freefriends.org  Mon Feb 23 19:05:35 2004
From: karl at freefriends.org (Karl Berry)
Date: Mon Feb 23 19:05:49 2004
Subject: [tex-live] .enc, .map and texmf.cnf
In-Reply-To: <20040221083312.GA18493@dbs.uni-hannover.de>
Message-ID: <200402231805.i1NI5Zj28631@f7.net>

      % Font encoding files (.enc); some applications might still use
      % TEXPSHEADERS for this.

I don't like generic comments like this.  It doesn't really tell anyone
who might need to do know what the known problems are.  (It's like "this
might fail on some systems".  Thanks, that's real helpful.)  If we have
to say it, then how about saying "dvips still uses TEXPSHEADERS",
or "applications x, y, z, use this, others don't".

Anyway, the dvips source for TL is in p4.  Can't we just change it?
Isn't the change trivial?

Tom/Tomas can backport the change when and if another official release
is ever made.  (And since dvips is no longer distributed separately, and
the original development sources aren't anywhere public, the whole area
seems very murky to me.)

Thanks,
k
From pragma at wxs.nl  Mon Feb 23 21:51:19 2004
From: pragma at wxs.nl (Hans Hagen)
Date: Mon Feb 23 22:12:04 2004
Subject: [tex-live] .enc, .map and texmf.cnf
In-Reply-To: <200402231805.i1NI5Zj28631@f7.net>
References: <20040221083312.GA18493@dbs.uni-hannover.de>
	<200402231805.i1NI5Zj28631@f7.net>
Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20040223214841.01c85e00@localhost>

At 19:05 23/02/2004, Karl Berry wrote:
>       % Font encoding files (.enc); some applications might still use
>       % TEXPSHEADERS for this.
>
>I don't like generic comments like this.  It doesn't really tell anyone
>who might need to do know what the known problems are.  (It's like "this
>might fail on some systems".  Thanks, that's real helpful.)  If we have
>to say it, then how about saying "dvips still uses TEXPSHEADERS",
>or "applications x, y, z, use this, others don't".

or like in each new version of the pdf reference:

this feature ... depreciated ...
this feature ... never implemented ...
developers are advised to use ... instead of ...

>Anyway, the dvips source for TL is in p4.  Can't we just change it?
>Isn't the change trivial?

in the process of cleaning up pdftex some dvips code will follow, so it's a 
good moment to get rid of this misusage if TEXPSHEADERS for encoding vectors

Hans  

From ms at artcom-gmbh.de  Tue Feb 24 17:34:34 2004
From: ms at artcom-gmbh.de (Martin =?iso-8859-1?Q?Schr=F6der?=)
Date: Tue Feb 24 17:35:36 2004
Subject: [tex-live] [TL2003] Problems with ec-fonts
Message-ID: <20040224163434.GO22933@artcom8.artcom-gmbh.de>

Hi,
I'm struggeling with a TL installation. I got the dvd image,
installed the generic setup+ and now pdftex doesn't know about
the ec fonts. 
I installed cm-super with 
        "sh ./install-pkg.sh --package=cm-super"
but pdftex.map still has no entries for it (but the cm-super
mapfiles are in updmap.cfg). 

Which magic spell for updmap is missing?

Best regards
        Martin

PS: The doc on the disc (livese3.html#x6-140003.3) talks about a
    --config option to install-pkg.sh, while the script knows only
    about --texconfig. :-{
-- 
               Martin Schr?der, ms@artcom-gmbh.de
     ArtCom GmbH, Lise-Meitner-Str 5, 28359 Bremen, Germany
          Voice +49 421 20419-44 / Fax +49 421 20419-10
                    http://www.artcom-gmbh.de
From ms at artcom-gmbh.de  Tue Feb 24 17:53:35 2004
From: ms at artcom-gmbh.de (Martin =?iso-8859-1?Q?Schr=F6der?=)
Date: Tue Feb 24 17:54:39 2004
Subject: [tex-live] texnames.sty
Message-ID: <20040224165335.GQ22933@artcom8.artcom-gmbh.de>

The DVD has at least two versions of texname.sty:
> find . -name texnames\* -ls         
6829905   14 -r--r--r--   1 ms       bits        13396 Mar 28  2001 ./FAQ/english/texnames.sty
6962675   14 -r--r--r--   1 ms       bits        13396 Feb 29  2000 ./texmf/tex/generic/misc/texnames.sty
6956432   12 -r--r--r--   1 ms       bits        12268 Feb 29  2000 ./texmf/source/eplain/texnames.sty
6882899   13 -r--r--r--   1 ms       bits        12423 Mar  2  1998 ./ctan/info/biblio/texnames.sty
6919653   14 -r--r--r--   1 ms       bits        13396 Jul 22  1996 ./ctan/usergrps/uktug/baskervi/6_3/texnames.sty
6919114   14 -r--r--r--   1 ms       bits        13387 Nov 22  1994 ./ctan/usergrps/uktug/baskervi/4_6/texnames.sty
6919735   14 -r--r--r--   1 ms       bits        13397 Jul 22  1996 ./ctan/usergrps/uktug/baskervi/6_4/texnames.sty
6919589   14 -r--r--r--   1 ms       bits        13396 Apr 30  1996 ./ctan/usergrps/uktug/baskervi/6_2/texnames.sty
6882349   14 -r--r--r--   1 ms       bits        13396 Jun 28  1995 ./ctan/help/uk-tex-faq/texnames.sty
6902893    1 -r--r--r--   1 ms       bits          541 Dec 22  1989 ./ctan/macros/latex209/contrib/misc/texnames.sty
6892753   12 -r--r--r--   1 ms       bits        12268 Mar 11  1996 ./ctan/macros/eplain/texnames.sty

>find . -name texnames\* |xargs md5sum
999cf6f407fd49c0adb04264fc2d53df  ./FAQ/english/texnames.sty
999cf6f407fd49c0adb04264fc2d53df  ./texmf/tex/generic/misc/texnames.sty
cf5e411bd66dabe58795fa59acb6f358  ./texmf/source/eplain/texnames.sty
a295ce453c297ca4713f98c31ff3d77f  ./ctan/info/biblio/texnames.sty
999cf6f407fd49c0adb04264fc2d53df  ./ctan/usergrps/uktug/baskervi/6_3/texnames.sty
526165922a1a5ee7eb42afb065da7f2f  ./ctan/usergrps/uktug/baskervi/4_6/texnames.sty
19f2fa5a4bfed88ff039d382ba795b9e  ./ctan/usergrps/uktug/baskervi/6_4/texnames.sty
999cf6f407fd49c0adb04264fc2d53df  ./ctan/usergrps/uktug/baskervi/6_2/texnames.sty
999cf6f407fd49c0adb04264fc2d53df  ./ctan/help/uk-tex-faq/texnames.sty
4c9bcdf23ec67b21f1758867017e9936  ./ctan/macros/latex209/contrib/misc/texnames.sty
cf5e411bd66dabe58795fa59acb6f358  ./ctan/macros/eplain/texnames.sty

> find . -name texnames\* |xargs grep version
./FAQ/english/texnames.sty:%%%     version         = "1.09",
./texmf/tex/generic/misc/texnames.sty:%%%     version         = "1.09",
./texmf/source/eplain/texnames.sty:%%%     version         = "1.09",
./ctan/info/biblio/texnames.sty:%%%     version         = "1.10",
./ctan/usergrps/uktug/baskervi/6_3/texnames.sty:%%%     version         = "1.09",
./ctan/usergrps/uktug/baskervi/4_6/texnames.sty:%%%     version         = "1.09",
./ctan/usergrps/uktug/baskervi/6_4/texnames.sty:%%%     version         = "1.09",
./ctan/usergrps/uktug/baskervi/6_2/texnames.sty:%%%     version         = "1.09",
./ctan/help/uk-tex-faq/texnames.sty:%%%     version         = "1.09",
./ctan/macros/eplain/texnames.sty:%%%     version         = "1.09",

So we have probably half a dozen different versions of
texnames.sty v1.09 on CTAN. :-(

We should at least have only one version in TL -- CTAN has the
right version in info/biblio and the rest is for historicans. :-)

Best regards
        Martin
-- 
               Martin Schr?der, ms@artcom-gmbh.de
     ArtCom GmbH, Lise-Meitner-Str 5, 28359 Bremen, Germany
          Voice +49 421 20419-44 / Fax +49 421 20419-10
                    http://www.artcom-gmbh.de
From beebe at math.utah.edu  Tue Feb 24 18:51:48 2004
From: beebe at math.utah.edu (Nelson H. F. Beebe)
Date: Tue Feb 24 18:52:31 2004
Subject: [tex-live] texnames.sty
In-Reply-To: Your message of Tue, 24 Feb 2004 17:53:35 +0100
Message-ID: <CMM.0.92.0.1077645108.beebe@psi.math.utah.edu>

I concur with Martin Schröder: the latest version of texnames.sty is
1.10, dated 02 March 1998 08:36:13 MST, present in the CTAN path
tex-archive/info/biblio/texnames.sty.

Even though the 7 other versions in the CTAN tree at

	tex-archive/help/uk-tex-faq/texnames.sty
	tex-archive/macros/eplain/texnames.sty
	tex-archive/macros/latex209/contrib/misc/texnames.sty
	tex-archive/usergrps/uktug/baskervi/4_6/texnames.sty
	tex-archive/usergrps/uktug/baskervi/6_2/texnames.sty
	tex-archive/usergrps/uktug/baskervi/6_3/texnames.sty
	tex-archive/usergrps/uktug/baskervi/6_4/texnames.sty

proclaim themselves to be version 1.09, MD5 checksums show that there
are 5 different flavors.

Only two of them correspond to my original distributions:

	% find . -type f | xargs --max-args=1 checksum -v
	The checksum verification of the input file ./help/uk-tex-faq/texnames.sty did not succeed.
	The checksum verification of the input file ./info/biblio/texnames.sty was successful.
	The checksum verification of the input file ./macros/eplain/texnames.sty was successful.
	The input file did not have the correct format.
	The checksum verification of the input file ./usergrps/uktug/baskervi/4_6/texnames.sty did not succeed.
	The checksum verification of the input file ./usergrps/uktug/baskervi/6_2/texnames.sty did not succeed.
	The checksum verification of the input file ./usergrps/uktug/baskervi/6_3/texnames.sty did not succeed.
	The checksum verification of the input file ./usergrps/uktug/baskervi/6_4/texnames.sty did not succeed.

The Baskerville ones differ by internal hacks (a distinct no-no
without changing the filename or version number), and by missing final
newlines.

I'd prefer that the deviant versions were either removed from CTAN, or
renamed (along with the references to them).  The whole point of the
timestamps and checksums in the standard file comment headers is to
allow the correct versions to be recognized.

The only significant difference between the official 1.09 and 1.10
versions is the addition of a definition of \LaTeXe.  Thus, files that
use the 1.09 version should be able to transparently use the 1.10
version without no output differences.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- Nelson H. F. Beebe                    Tel: +1 801 581 5254                  -
- University of Utah                    FAX: +1 801 581 4148                  -
- Department of Mathematics, 110 LCB    Internet e-mail: beebe@math.utah.edu  -
- 155 S 1400 E RM 233                       beebe@acm.org  beebe@computer.org -
- Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0090, USA    URL: http://www.math.utah.edu/~beebe  -
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From juhtolv at cc.jyu.fi  Wed Feb 25 05:41:56 2004
From: juhtolv at cc.jyu.fi (Juhapekka Tolvanen)
Date: Wed Feb 25 09:56:01 2004
Subject: [tex-live] Non-free fonts in CTAN and TeX Live
Message-ID: <20040225044156.GA25464@heresy.ainola.jyu.fi>


I am convinced, that these non-free font directories must be moved
to non-free directory immediately:

fonts/utopia
fonts/LuxiMono
fonts/pandora
fonts/ps-type1/pandora

In addition those fonts must be removed from TeX Live CD-ROM.

BTW in Debian GNU/Linux this thing happened, recently: LuxiMono and
Adobe Utopia fonts of XFree86 were moved to separated Debian-packages
and then those packages were put to non-free -section. Also IBM
Courier experienced the same destiny, but I can't find that font in
CTAN.

On the other hand, I just heard from comp.text.tex , that Robin
Fairbairns is trying to find author of Pandora fonts (N.N. Billawala)
in order to ask her to change the licence of those fonts. Any help for
finding her would be really appreciated.


-- 
Juhapekka "naula" Tolvanen * http colon slash slash iki dot fi slash juhtolv
"Kun katsoo suuren tyhjyyden ilkkuvaan ilvehahmoon, ponnistaa tahtonsa ja
repii viimein rei?n varjoihin: H?m?rill? teill? tytt?, t?htisilm?,
kultakutri, taivaallisen puhemiehen tarjoama mielitietty!"               CMX
From Robin.Fairbairns at cl.cam.ac.uk  Wed Feb 25 08:52:14 2004
From: Robin.Fairbairns at cl.cam.ac.uk (Robin Fairbairns)
Date: Wed Feb 25 09:56:04 2004
Subject: [tex-live] Re: Non-free fonts in CTAN and TeX Live 
In-Reply-To: Your message of Wed, 25 Feb 2004 06:41:56 +0200.
	<20040225044156.GA25464@heresy.ainola.jyu.fi> 
Message-ID: <E1Avtq2-0001P4-00@wisbech.cl.cam.ac.uk>

> fonts/pandora
> fonts/ps-type1/pandora
> 
> In addition those fonts must be removed from TeX Live CD-ROM.

as things stand, i agree about these.  however, pandora's been where it
is for so long, i'm not intending to move it until my present chasing of
the author completes (or, more likely i fear, completely fails).

as for the other two, i had understood that they _were_ free (on the
say-so of our current font guru), but since you mention them, we will
review the actual licences.  (the luximono stuff comes from the said
font guru.)

Robin Fairbairns

For the CTAN team

(not intending to prejudice any other ctan manager's opinion)
From pragma at wxs.nl  Wed Feb 25 10:07:30 2004
From: pragma at wxs.nl (Hans Hagen)
Date: Wed Feb 25 10:17:30 2004
Subject: [tex-live] Non-free fonts in CTAN and TeX Live
In-Reply-To: <20040225044156.GA25464@heresy.ainola.jyu.fi>
References: <20040225044156.GA25464@heresy.ainola.jyu.fi>
Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20040225100627.02cad280@server-1>

At 05:41 25/02/2004, Juhapekka Tolvanen wrote:

>I am convinced, that these non-free font directories must be moved
>to non-free directory immediately:
>
>fonts/utopia
>
>In addition those fonts must be removed from TeX Live CD-ROM.

on the tex live distribution (DVD) the utopia fonts are already in texmf-extra

those fonts mey freely be distributed, but adapting them is not permitted 
(which is fine with me)

Hans  

From karl at freefriends.org  Wed Feb 25 14:43:56 2004
From: karl at freefriends.org (Karl Berry)
Date: Wed Feb 25 14:44:26 2004
Subject: [tex-live] Non-free fonts in CTAN and TeX Live
In-Reply-To: <20040225044156.GA25464@heresy.ainola.jyu.fi>
Message-ID: <200402251343.i1PDhuH28868@f7.net>

    fonts/utopia
    fonts/LuxiMono

CTAN has different rules than TeX Live et al, as far as I know.
According to CTAN rules, these fonts (which forbid modification but
allow unaltered redistribution) are not non-free.

They are included on the "TeX Collection DVD", as Hans said, but they
are not part of TeX Live, which is "free" by the FSF/Debian definitions.
From staw at gust.org.pl  Thu Feb 26 03:31:58 2004
From: staw at gust.org.pl (Staszek Wawrykiewicz)
Date: Thu Feb 26 03:21:22 2004
Subject: [tex-live] texnames.sty
In-Reply-To: <CMM.0.92.0.1077645108.beebe@psi.math.utah.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0402260308070.28165-100000@re86.internetdsl.tpnet.pl>

On Tue, 24 Feb 2004, Nelson H. F. Beebe wrote:

> I concur with Martin Schr?der: the latest version of texnames.sty is
> 1.10, dated 02 March 1998 08:36:13 MST, present in the CTAN path
> tex-archive/info/biblio/texnames.sty.
> ....
> ....
> The only significant difference between the official 1.09 and 1.10
> versions is the addition of a definition of \LaTeXe.  Thus, files that
> use the 1.09 version should be able to transparently use the 1.10
> version without no output differences.

This is very strange: 1.09 already contains \LaTeXe, so 1.10
added only a history comment.
However there are more differences in definitions of \BibTeX,
\SLiTeX and \AmSTeX, and in 1.10 \PiCTeX and \VorTeX were removed.

Anyway, I agree that 1.10 from CTAN should replace all those version
found in TL depot.
Now we have even more copies of texnames.sty in 
texmf-dist/doc/guides/texlive/
I don't know what was the reason moving sources here, since
doc/tldoc/ still contains ready made documents for some languages.
btw tldoc-* tpm files are corrupted. :(

-- 
Staszek Wawrykiewicz
StaW@gust.org.pl


From beebe at math.utah.edu  Thu Feb 26 13:42:24 2004
From: beebe at math.utah.edu (Nelson H. F. Beebe)
Date: Thu Feb 26 13:50:23 2004
Subject: [tex-live] texnames.sty
In-Reply-To: Your message of Thu, 26 Feb 2004 03:31:58 +0100 (CET)
Message-ID: <CMM.0.92.0.1077799344.beebe@psi.math.utah.edu>

Staszek Wawrykiewicz <StaW@gust.org.pl> writes on Thu, 26 Feb 2004 03:31:58 +0100 (CET):

>> ...
>> This is very strange: 1.09 already contains \LaTeXe, so 1.10
>> added only a history comment.
>> However there are more differences in definitions of \BibTeX,
>> \SLiTeX and \AmSTeX, and in 1.10 \PiCTeX and \VorTeX were removed.
>> ...

Then the version 1.09 that you examined has been hacked without being
renamed, and I take no responsibility for it.  Please verify the
checksum:

	% checksum -v texnames.sty
	The checksum verification of the input file texnames.sty was successful.

A tampered file will produce this report if it has the expected
comment header:

	% checksum -v tex-archive/usergrps/uktug/baskervi/6_4/texnames.sty
	The checksum verification of the input file tex-archive/usergrps/uktug/baskervi/6_4/texnames.sty did not succeed.

and this if it cannot be parsed:

	% checksum -v tex-archive/macros/latex209/contrib/misc/texnames.sty
	The input file did not have the correct format.

The checksum program is available in several versions and formats at:

	http://www.math.utah.edu/pub/checksum/

Here is the official difference between versions 1.09 and 1.10 of
texnames.sty:

	% rcsdiff -r1.5 texnames.sty
	===================================================================
	RCS file: RCS/texnames.sty,v
	retrieving revision 1.5
	diff -r1.5 texnames.sty
	6,8c6,8
	< %%%     version         = "1.09",
	< %%%     date            = "16 March 1993",
	< %%%     time            = "10:08:05 MST",
	---
	> %%%     version         = "1.10",
	> %%%     date            = "02 March 1998",
	> %%%     time            = "08:36:13 MST",
	18c18
	< %%%     checksum        = "15888 291 1374 12268",
	---
	> %%%     checksum        = "27723 296 1385 12423",
	95a96,97
	> %%%                        02 March 1998 (1.10): Add \LaTeXe.
	> %%%
	106c108
	< \immediate\write16{This is texnames.sty, Version 1.09 <16 March 1993>}%
	---
	> \immediate\write16{This is texnames.sty, Version 1.10 <02 March 1998>}%
	233a236,238
	> \ifx\LaTeXe\undefined
	>     \def\LaTeXe{\LaTeX{}\kern.05em2$_{\textstyle\varepsilon}$}
	> \fi

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- Nelson H. F. Beebe                    Tel: +1 801 581 5254                  -
- University of Utah                    FAX: +1 801 581 4148                  -
- Department of Mathematics, 110 LCB    Internet e-mail: beebe@math.utah.edu  -
- 155 S 1400 E RM 233                       beebe@acm.org  beebe@computer.org -
- Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0090, USA    URL: http://www.math.utah.edu/~beebe  -
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From Robin.Fairbairns at cl.cam.ac.uk  Thu Feb 26 14:16:53 2004
From: Robin.Fairbairns at cl.cam.ac.uk (Robin Fairbairns)
Date: Thu Feb 26 14:20:19 2004
Subject: [tex-live] texnames.sty 
In-Reply-To: Your message of Thu, 26 Feb 2004 05:42:24 -0700.
	<CMM.0.92.0.1077799344.beebe@psi.math.utah.edu> 
Message-ID: <E1AwLNm-0000tF-00@wisbech.cl.cam.ac.uk>

> Staszek Wawrykiewicz <StaW@gust.org.pl> writes on Thu, 26 Feb 2004 03:31:58 +0100 (CET):
> >> This is very strange: 1.09 already contains \LaTeXe, so 1.10
> >> added only a history comment.
> >> However there are more differences in definitions of \BibTeX,
> >> \SLiTeX and \AmSTeX, and in 1.10 \PiCTeX and \VorTeX were removed.
> >> ...
> 
> Then the version 1.09 that you examined has been hacked without being
> renamed, and I take no responsibility for it.  Please verify the
> checksum:
> 
> 	% checksum -v texnames.sty
> 	The checksum verification of the input file texnames.sty was successful.
> 
> A tampered file will produce this report if it has the expected
> comment header:
> 
> 	% checksum -v tex-archive/usergrps/uktug/baskervi/6_4/texnames.sty
> 	The checksum verification of the input file tex-archive/usergrps/uktug/baskervi/6_4/texnames.sty did not succeed.
> 
> and this if it cannot be parsed:
> 
> 	% checksum -v tex-archive/macros/latex209/contrib/misc/texnames.sty
> 	The input file did not have the correct format.

that version looks as if it predates anything i've ever noticed from
you.  presumably written by a french person, given the extraordinary
macro for gutenberg

fwiw, i'm renaming _my_ copy of texnames.sty (which i made in the 1994-
1995 timeframe) to stupid_names.sty (reflecting my advertised view of
these logos).  perhaps i should have done this at the time, but it
didn't occur to me that it would be necessary.

the reason i hacked your version in the first place was that (a) it
didn't contain a latex2e logo, and it didn't work reliably with 2e
(because of the explicit \fam numbers, for example in the ams logos).  i
pointed these problems out to you, at the time (cc barbara beeton,
iirc), and received no reply.

since you still haven't deigned to make the package latex2e-reliable
(nearly 10 years after i suggested the change to you), it's plainly time
for me to "decisively" diverge.  sorry about the interim confusion.

i shall probably give up on logos for the next faq release but one, but
from the next release (in a day or so) the texnames.sty on
help/uk-tex-faq will be no more.  this doesn't of course help the
historical copies of the faq under usergrps/uktug/<baskerville various>
but that (i fear) is the way the cookie crumbles.

robin
From karl at freefriends.org  Thu Feb 26 15:17:44 2004
From: karl at freefriends.org (Karl Berry)
Date: Thu Feb 26 15:18:05 2004
Subject: [tex-live] texnames.sty
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0402260308070.28165-100000@re86.internetdsl.tpnet.pl>
Message-ID: <200402261417.i1QEHiL21722@f7.net>

    Now we have even more copies of texnames.sty in 
    texmf-dist/doc/guides/texlive/

I guess I will remove them eventually.  I can't see that we need a
special version for the tldoc.

    I don't know what was the reason moving sources here, 

I wrote about this.  I moved them because we need to have the tldoc
sources actually end up in the TL distribution :).

    Since doc/tldoc/ still contains ready made documents for some languages.
    btw tldoc-* tpm files are corrupted. :(

I haven't finished, so the guides/texlive/ stuff isn't actually being
used anywhere.  All I've done so far is move them from the Build directory.
I will get back to it one day soon.

Thanks,
k
From Robin.Fairbairns at cl.cam.ac.uk  Thu Feb 26 15:23:36 2004
From: Robin.Fairbairns at cl.cam.ac.uk (Robin Fairbairns)
Date: Thu Feb 26 15:24:04 2004
Subject: [tex-live] texnames.sty 
In-Reply-To: Your message of Thu, 26 Feb 2004 09:17:44 -0500.
	<200402261417.i1QEHiL21722@f7.net> 
Message-ID: <E1AwMQL-0001rV-00@wisbech.cl.cam.ac.uk>

>     Now we have even more copies of texnames.sty in 
>     texmf-dist/doc/guides/texlive/
> 
> I guess I will remove them eventually.  I can't see that we need a
> special version for the tldoc.

do you generate tldocs with latex?  if so, there's your answer.
From te at dbs.uni-hannover.de  Thu Feb 26 20:51:14 2004
From: te at dbs.uni-hannover.de (Thomas Esser)
Date: Thu Feb 26 20:51:31 2004
Subject: [tex-live] .enc, .map and texmf.cnf
In-Reply-To: <6.0.1.1.2.20040221180119.01c02ec0@localhost>
References: <20040220060032.GA19464@dbs.uni-hannover.de>
	<Pine.LNX.4.44.0402210250390.16170-100000@re86.internetdsl.tpnet.pl>
	<20040221083312.GA18493@dbs.uni-hannover.de>
	<6.0.1.1.2.20040221180119.01c02ec0@localhost>
Message-ID: <20040226195114.GA8758@dbs.uni-hannover.de>

> another anomality is that graphics are searched along the tex source path, 
> should be an independent graphics path $GRAPHICINPUTS, defaulting to 
> $TEXINPUTS

I don't know if this is hard or not. But, I imagine that the typesetting
part (i.e. the part that is just concerned about boxes) of pdftex needs
to find the graphics for the bounding box. And, this part can only search
along $TEXINPUTS, can't it?

Thomas
From pragma at wxs.nl  Fri Feb 27 00:01:07 2004
From: pragma at wxs.nl (Hans Hagen)
Date: Fri Feb 27 08:42:15 2004
Subject: [tex-live] 8 bit again 
In-Reply-To: <200402261417.i1QEHiL21722@f7.net>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0402260308070.28165-100000@re86.internetdsl.tpnet.pl>
	<200402261417.i1QEHiL21722@f7.net>
Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20040226235517.01ecac90@server-1>

Hi,

It looks like 8 bit chars can only be influenced in tcx files when the char 
code is > 127, i.e. there is no way to write 'normal' codes <32 to a file. 
Whatever i try, I always get those ^^whatever escapes. For some 
applications i really use the 'verbose' tokens, and there was a time that 
it worked. If this is indeed a limitation, then it renders tex useless for 
some applications.

so, this does not work in tcs files

0x00   0x00  %
0x01   0x01  %
0x02   0x02  %
0x03   0x03  %
0x04   0x04  %
0x05   0x05  %
0x06   0x06  %
0x07   0x07  %
etc

I still think that a -8bit flag makes sense.

btw, pdftex nicely converts the ^^M's to normal char codes when writing 
info to objects; the main problem is in the text files that tex writes.

Hans


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE/POD/CTS
                       Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
  tel: +31 (0)38 477 53 69 | fax: +31 (0)38 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
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                     documentation: http://www.pragma-ade.com/showcase.pdf
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

From pragma at wxs.nl  Fri Feb 27 08:51:22 2004
From: pragma at wxs.nl (Hans Hagen)
Date: Fri Feb 27 09:12:56 2004
Subject: [tex-live] .enc, .map and texmf.cnf
In-Reply-To: <20040226195114.GA8758@dbs.uni-hannover.de>
References: <20040220060032.GA19464@dbs.uni-hannover.de>
	<Pine.LNX.4.44.0402210250390.16170-100000@re86.internetdsl.tpnet.pl>
	<20040221083312.GA18493@dbs.uni-hannover.de>
	<6.0.1.1.2.20040221180119.01c02ec0@localhost>
	<20040226195114.GA8758@dbs.uni-hannover.de>
Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20040227084655.0372f928@server-1>

At 20:51 26/02/2004, Thomas Esser wrote:
> > another anomality is that graphics are searched along the tex source path,
> > should be an independent graphics path $GRAPHICINPUTS, defaulting to
> > $TEXINPUTS
>
>I don't know if this is hard or not. But, I imagine that the typesetting
>part (i.e. the part that is just concerned about boxes) of pdftex needs
>to find the graphics for the bounding box. And, this part can only search
>along $TEXINPUTS, can't it?

if texinputs is bound to \input and \openin, that's true (i'm not sure what 
pdftex has har coded, maybe the sams as dvips); so what we really need is a 
way from within tex to set the search path which is a different game

   in pdftex: \pdfinput [path {...}] file {...}

something to discuss with martin/thanh.

Hans  

From olaf at infovore.xs4all.nl  Fri Feb 27 21:13:50 2004
From: olaf at infovore.xs4all.nl (Olaf Weber)
Date: Fri Feb 27 21:14:07 2004
Subject: [tex-live] Re: 8 bit again
In-Reply-To: <6.0.1.1.2.20040226235517.01ecac90@server-1> (Hans Hagen's
	message of "Fri, 27 Feb 2004 00:01:07 +0100")
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0402260308070.28165-100000@re86.internetdsl.tpnet.pl>
	<200402261417.i1QEHiL21722@f7.net>
	<6.0.1.1.2.20040226235517.01ecac90@server-1>
Message-ID: <87ishsffgh.fsf@infovore.xs4all.nl>

Hans Hagen writes:

> Hi,
> It looks like 8 bit chars can only be influenced in tcx files when the
> char code is > 127, i.e. there is no way to write 'normal' codes <32
> to a file. Whatever i try, I always get those ^^whatever escapes. For
> some applications i really use the 'verbose' tokens, and there was a
> time that it worked. If this is indeed a limitation, then it renders
> tex useless for some applications.

> so, this does not work in tcs files

> 0x00   0x00  %
> 0x01   0x01  %
> 0x02   0x02  %
> 0x03   0x03  %
> 0x04   0x04  %
> 0x05   0x05  %
> 0x06   0x06  %
> 0x07   0x07  %
> etc

As far as I can tell it does work.  One thing to note is that I'm not
working from the TeXlive sources, and the major difference between my
sources and current TeXlive is that I haven't merged encTeX yet.
Perhaps there's a problem there?

By the way, also note that cp8bit.tcx does less than its name might
suggest.

-- 
Olaf Weber

               (This space left blank for technical reasons.)

From karl at freefriends.org  Sat Feb 28 01:32:54 2004
From: karl at freefriends.org (Karl Berry)
Date: Sat Feb 28 01:32:56 2004
Subject: [tex-live] current pdfetex.pool doesn't match?
Message-ID: <200402280032.i1S0WsB32657@tug.org>

Trying to generate pdflatex.efmt from current p4, complains about
pdfetex.pool ...  Help?


This is pdfeTeXk, Version 3.141592-1.11c-beta-20040208-2.1 (Web2C 7.5.2)
 %&-line parsing enabled.
kpathsea: Running mktexfmt pdflatex.efmt
running `pdfetex -ini   -jobname=pdflatex -progname=pdflatex *pdflatex.ini' ...
! pdfetex.pool doesn't match; tangle me again (or fix the path).
Error: `pdfetex -ini  -jobname=pdflatex -progname=pdflatex *pdflatex.ini' failed

###############################################################################
fmtutil: Error! Not all formats have been built successfully.
Visit the log files in directory
  /home/karl/src/Master/texmf-var/web2c
for details.
###############################################################################

This is a summary of all `failed' messages and warnings:
`pdfetex -ini  -jobname=pdflatex -progname=pdflatex *pdflatex.ini' failed
warning: kpathsea: mktexpk output `! pdfetex.pool doesn't match; tangle me again (or fix the path).' instead of a filename.
I can't find the format file `pdflatex.efmt'!
From staw at gust.org.pl  Sat Feb 28 06:11:37 2004
From: staw at gust.org.pl (Staszek Wawrykiewicz)
Date: Sat Feb 28 05:59:59 2004
Subject: [tex-live] [TL2003] Problems with ec-fonts
In-Reply-To: <20040224163434.GO22933@artcom8.artcom-gmbh.de>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0402280535300.31287-100000@re86.internetdsl.tpnet.pl>

On Tue, 24 Feb 2004, Martin [iso-8859-1] Schr?der wrote:

> I'm struggeling with a TL installation. I got the dvd image,
> installed the generic setup+ and now pdftex doesn't know about
> the ec fonts. 

\usepackage{lmodern} instead ;-)
I know there's no better solution, or LM fonts would use the same
TeX names in map files...

> I installed cm-super with 
>         "sh ./install-pkg.sh --package=cm-super"
> but pdftex.map still has no entries for it (but the cm-super
> mapfiles are in updmap.cfg). 

In texmf/web2c/updmap.cfg which is just copied from CD/DVD during
installation, but not in texmf-var/web2c/. Seems that install-pkg.sh
doesn't know how to update proper updmap.cfg :(

> Which magic spell for updmap is missing?

updmap --enable MixedMap cm-super-t2a.map
updmap --enable MixedMap cm-super-t1.map
etc.
 
> PS: The doc on the disc (livese3.html#x6-140003.3) talks about a
>     --config option to install-pkg.sh, while the script knows only
>     about --texconfig. :-{

I only know that SPQR dislikes install-pkg.sh  ;-) 

-- 
Staszek Wawrykiewicz
StaW@gust.org.pl


From pragma at wxs.nl  Sat Feb 28 13:04:40 2004
From: pragma at wxs.nl (Hans Hagen)
Date: Sat Feb 28 13:12:39 2004
Subject: [tex-live] Re: 8 bit again
In-Reply-To: <87ishsffgh.fsf@infovore.xs4all.nl>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0402260308070.28165-100000@re86.internetdsl.tpnet.pl>
	<200402261417.i1QEHiL21722@f7.net>
	<6.0.1.1.2.20040226235517.01ecac90@server-1>
	<87ishsffgh.fsf@infovore.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20040228130052.01bee360@localhost>

At 21:13 27/02/2004, Olaf Weber wrote:

>Perhaps there's a problem there?

no, the problem is in an incomplete cp8bit file as well as differences 
between terminal and file output (and tcx handling)

>By the way, also note that cp8bit.tcx does less than its name might
>suggest.

indeed, and that worries me, since it was told to be the solution for the 
7/8 bit tex live show-stopper problem, which it isn't

Hartmut and I will submit a new tcx file (natural.tcx) which at least 
addresses that problem; also, we're looking into some kind of funny two-way 
remapping tab problem we ran into; more later

Hans    

From karl at freefriends.org  Sat Feb 28 17:55:16 2004
From: karl at freefriends.org (Karl Berry)
Date: Sat Feb 28 17:55:36 2004
Subject: [tex-live] [TL2003] Problems with ec-fonts
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0402280535300.31287-100000@re86.internetdsl.tpnet.pl>
Message-ID: <200402281655.i1SGtGh15948@f7.net>

    > PS: The doc on the disc (livese3.html#x6-140003.3) talks about a
    >     --config option to install-pkg.sh, while the script knows only
    >     about --texconfig. :-{

I have fixed this for next year in my working copy.  Thanks.
From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk  Sat Feb 28 18:04:06 2004
From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz)
Date: Sat Feb 28 18:04:23 2004
Subject: [tex-live] current pdfetex.pool doesn't match?
In-Reply-To: <200402280032.i1S0WsB32657@tug.org>
References: <200402280032.i1S0WsB32657@tug.org>
Message-ID: <20040228170406.GA14256@herald.ox.ac.uk>

On Sat, Feb 28, 2004 at 01:32:54AM +0100, Karl Berry wrote:
> Trying to generate pdflatex.efmt from current p4, complains about
> pdfetex.pool ...  Help?

Fabrice checked in a pdfetex.pool which is later than
the Linux binaries. needs a recompile 

sebastian